Rather terrifying article about social workers attempting to take baby from its mother as soon as its born.

[Callisto]

It was in the Sunday Telegraph which I got round to reading last night. The story plus a couple of related articles is here: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/26/nbaby126.xml

Denise Robertson was very good. Then again she knows the truth (and doesn't make any money out of the system).

Am rooting for you and Molly, Fran!

Surely Molly has the human right to be breastfed by her mother?

Fran - I am horrified by the way you and Molly have been treated. Fingers crossed that with all this publicity things turn out well and you can put this difficult time behind you.

Thank you for posting Fran. You know that a great many of us are behind you here and are outraged about what is being done to you and to Molly.

Thank you johnhemming for taking a stand too, we need more MPs like you.

Hi,

I posted this over on the other thread last night, but forgot to post it here too. Sorry!

Your support means so much at the moment - thank you. It really does help get me through the tough moments.

Thanks,

Fran & Molly

--

Hello,

I've just read the thread through properly. Thank you for all the support, and sorry if I've caused upset - it seems to have gotten a bit heated at times.

I'm repeating myself a little here I think - but from what I've read a lot seems to have been made about whether or not people have had access to all the facts. For as much as it is worth, you have my word that I am not hiding anything.

All the journalists, legal folk and MP's have also had full access to documentation in my possession. I don't post those documents online because they contain highly sensitive information about people other than me.

I am not, definitely, absolutely, not attacking the child protection system - or the people who work in it. I do feel though that some changes would be helpful - for everyone, not just parents. For example - interviews between social workers and parents/others could be recorded. From my limited experience this would eliminate a great deal of contention and frustration over subsequent reports.

I appreciate greatly all the posts that have been made here by people who have a professional role in this system. Hearing other people's views really helps at the moment. One of the things I find incredibly difficult is just how hard it is to get a straight answer to questions. Your experience is invaluable, and I'm grateful for the opportunity to read about it. I would just ask that it is remembered that just because something "should" happen doesn't mean that it "does" happen. Nor because one has experienced something being done in a such a way does it mean that it is always done in that way.

I believe that the vast majority of social workers are genuinely caring and empathetic individuals who honestly seek to provide help and support to people who are really struggling at the margins of society. However I also believe that too often they are abandoned in a poorly staffed, poorly resourced and poorly trained system which really can't cope with the demands being made of it. Decisions made in situations such as mine are so immense as to deny true comprehension. Surely it must be in everyone's interest that we ensure the professionals and the system responsible are as transparent, informed and rigorous as is possible? The system quite rightly and necessarily wields a vast amount of power - but for it to do so without due scrutiny and humility often ends up feeling, and being perceived as being, abusive in itself.

Thanks,

Fran

(An odd addendum: a while back on this thread it was stated that there is no cure for personality disorder and that it does have a dramatic effect upon an individual's ability to parent. Whilst I've no desire to kick off a whole other highly contentious debate this simply is not true according to research of the last few years. Please look for "Personality Disorder: No longer a diagnosis of exclusion" from the Dept. of Health or at www.borderlineuk.co.uk for more information)

just watched that Philip & Fern ('cept it wasn't Fern, but ykwim) clip.

I totally agreed with Denise Roberts - who looked like she was about to cry and she is right, people SHOULD be up in arms about this. (not just the mumsnet collective)

As such, I have sent a copy of the clip to everyone in my address book that may not already know about this case and asked that they all write to their mps, tell everyone they know, forward the email.

Good luck, Fran

This is the link to the other thread BatteriesNotIncluded]]

Thank you GunpowderTreasonandSquonk.

Our site is back up now at franlyon.righttoreply.info/Home.html

I will update it soon - I promise!

Thanks,

Fran & Molly

Dear All,
I have read this whole thread, checked out the links and spoken to people only recently.
Reading my own knickname is a bit odd but then that is the price I pay for annonymity.
I can not tell you lot how sick to death I am about all of this.

Here are the facts:

I had my children (X2) stolen from me in 1991. They were taken on the say so of Roy Meadows who did not see me, my medical notes or any doctor who had ever seen or treated me.
I was given a court order stating that I had an open adoption. This was a lie. I now know that the adoptive parents and the Judge were on the board of the adoption agency.
I wrote to my M.P. to be told Margaret Hodge was sick of my name.
I am still gagged and my medical notes are not available to my current doctors.
I was accused of poisoning my daughter. (not true)
I was told I had Munchausens Syndrome as the illness I have was "too rare for me to have", well I have had it checked by biopsy several times and I have it.
I am not even allowed to get any form of support as I am not allowed to tell anyone what happened.
The Q.C. who defended me now prosecutes for the local authority.
The Judge did not declare his paticipation in our case.
The Family Courts are VERY secretive.
When your children are gone even if it was a mistake once they have been adopted you can never have contact or get them back.
The system stinks and the only way a solicitor would overturn the judgement, which would not get me back my children was if I sold my house.
If MN thinks it can change the system please feel free and have a go.
oh I was one of the very first Meadows cases.

Has meadows not been discredited now? Can you contact John Hemmings? I believe he works with a lot of people in your situation?

I am so sorry. 1991. Your children must be grown up by now? Will the normal routes of finding a parent be open to them?

Are you still banned from getting any help and support or telling anyone even after the children are grown up? Is this secrecy a lifetime thing, not just while the children are uner 18? I didn't know that.

There does need to be a change to the way these things are run, I think. The children must come first, but there must be a different way of doing things.

God knows the current system doesn't actually protect all children, does it

I'm a children's social worker, I've posted here before, if a woman is having her FIRST child taken away at birth then there must be stacks of irrefutable evidence because of cases like Sally Clark and the children with the bone disorder. It is also worth bearing in mind that social services cannot come along and say to the paper

'actually we're removing her child at birth because she's a schedule 1 offender who stubbed her cigarettes out on her little brother, sexually assaulted her niece, has said to her psychiatrist she fantasizes about killing a baby and her personal hygiene is so lax she hasn't showered for 6 months, doesn't own a toothbrush, use loo roll and eats rotting food, which is routinely left on the kitchen counters'

what you read in the paper is what she has chosen to tell the reporters, because of confidentiality we cannot give our side of the story, I promise for every 10 babies I wish I could take away at birth (not an ideal situation but far far preferable to the home waiting for them) only one will be. And ultimately the only way SS can know if she would be a 'good' or 'bad' mother is 18 years later, which unfortunately is too late if she happens to be from the Tracey Connelly school of parenting.

Bunglie I remember hearing about your awful situation, although I was not on MN when you were before

You poor poor woman

Lighteningthief needs to know that Fran had Molly some time ago in Sweden. I last spoke to Fran just before the General Election (in May) and they were well.

I think bunglie is in touch with me.

The child protection system in England is still broken although there are good signs of it getting fixed.

where are fran and molly now? have they been allowed to be a family?

Message withdrawn

Thanks for your posts. I am in contact with John Hemming. My children are now 23 & 25. They were only 2 & 3 when they were taken and I am so annoyed as I did nothing and was even cleared by a criminal court (I know about the different levels of evidence), as I was told by the Judge that there was 'NO CASE TO ANSWER' and the Social Services could not prove any case against me, and they tried, but I did not even need to give any defence evidence.
I hate the system that steals your children and then gags you for life. Even though my children are adults I do not have contact with them and they do not know the truth. They were given 'letters for life' written by a malicious social worker. They were given them when they were 18 years old (my dd was 17.5, the letters were 15 years old and untrue based on disputed medical evidence.
Unfortunately Meadows was discreditted but he was re-instated by the GMC. He might have retired now and was only a Dr. when he stole my children but there are still people out there who think they no better and NEVER give you a chance or the benefit of the doubt.
MSbP is a no win diagnosis. You can NEVER do anything right.
2 people, one of them my parish priest offered to let me my dh and 2 children live with them for as long as necessary. Still the Judge said 'NO!'. They had been away from us for 2 years by then and although we had access for 5 hrs, twice a week (NEVER MISSED), we still lost.
Oh my children were not put in care but made 'Wards of the Court' (the last ones we think!)because there was no evidence for the SS to get a care order. IF THIS IS JUSTICE IT STINKS AND NO ONE REALLY CARES AS YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO SAY ANYTHING.

Meadows did make a lot of money. Then that is the nub of the system. People making money. Particularly the lawyers and experts.

Not so much the social workers.

We're fine and dandy OutOut. A little shocked to see this thread pop up, but otherwise jolly happy. Enjoying the last few weeks of the summer hols before it is term time for us both again.

Quite shocked myself to see this thread raise it's head again, and nice to see you again, John Hemming and Squiggly.

Bunglie, since your case was so long ago, what would the consequences be if you actually went to the papers now? Surely after all of these years, and such a miscarraige of justice, the courts wouldn't actually do anything if it all came?

That should be 'if it all came out'.

Hi all,
I feel really bad now as I never wanted this thread to turn into an MSbP thread.
I think that if I went to the papers now, the courts would probably check me out and hopefully ignore it as I have heard that the judge has been retired a while.
I am a bit more concerned about making my life so public and also the fact that I would be hurting the children, adoptive mother (adopted father died) and of course my mother certainly had a very big spoon in the pie.
I am not even sure that anybody even the papers would be interested in the truth or what happened all those years ago. It seems that we are yesterdays news and if people do not like what the truth is about the Family Courts system they tend not to believe it. I think it would be awful to tell the truth and still not be believed and then in the process hurt those I want to protect.
I really am not sure if all that makes much sense.
What gets at me more at the moment is that the adopted parents were over 50 and were on 'standby' for my children prior to the final hearing. Also the Judge as well as the adoptive parents were on the board of governors of the adoption agency.

I can not see that it is right for young children to be taken, adopted and even have abuse within the new home. It makes me wonder what is really going on and who is paying who?

The system is corrupt and although I feel I am a victim, who is protecting those who really need the protection

Erm, why are you spamming threads from as far back as 2007 with your Facebook group that people can't even click if they feel so inclined?