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Rather terrifying article about social workers attempting to take baby from its mother as soon as its born.

501 replies

Callisto · 29/08/2007 08:29

It was in the Sunday Telegraph which I got round to reading last night. The story plus a couple of related articles is here: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/26/nbaby126.xml

OP posts:
bossybritches · 30/10/2007 18:38

Yes it did go a bit quiet Upwind didn't it?

Maybe they knew that although there ARE many good SW's & genuine cases where they act solely in the childs best interests, there are also FAR too many where miscarriages of justice occur.

ruty · 30/10/2007 21:39

yes definitely a modern bogey man story. Not to say it has never existed, but over used in popular fiction and I cannot say for sure that hasn't had an effect.

bossybritches · 30/10/2007 22:08

A good theory ruty..... Emperors New Clothes type of thing!

kindersurprise · 02/11/2007 11:26

Fran on GMTV now

kindersurprise · 02/11/2007 11:37

I have been following this but have not posted before. Fran seems very calm and controlled. More so than I could be in her situation.

She said that it seems to be a case of Social services being unable to back down, she wants to sit at a table and speak like adults and not acrinomously (sp?) about her case.

MP on next

kindersurprise · 02/11/2007 11:40

oops, it is This Morning not GMTV

Theclosetpagansbesom · 02/11/2007 11:50

...but please remember we only really know Fran's side of the story. I reckon there's more to all this than meets the eye.
That is not to say that "they" don't get it wrong sometimes - patently they do but taking a baby in an untried situation like this is NOT normal practice. So why are they doing it?

I work with families on a regular basis who could give a similar history to Fran and thir babies are not taken from them. There HAS to be more to this case than is being said.

Personally I'd love to see Fran being given a chance to show that she is a safe Mum BUT that is just based upon what I have read in the press and from Fran herself. The fact that she is not being given this opportunity makes me wonder just what the problem is - it is not just what we are reading in the press.

Must leave this thread now but I don't know the real reasons behind this and nor does anyone else. Admittedly there is a whole other discussion surrounding the secrecy of these decisions but I leave that to better minds than mine.

bossybritches · 02/11/2007 15:47

Yes CPG, all points we've wondered ourselves but consider this.

WHO is being protected by the continued secrecy.? Fran has waived anonimity by being open & up front so they can hardly cry "confidentiality" can they?

IF (& it's a big IF) there is really a cause for concern why not say

OK our concerns are a) b) c) & this is what we would like to do because X Y & Z.
(As with any other medical/psyche problem)

Now if Fran is at that point concerned about the confidentiality then it could all be kept within the discussion & she could say;

that concerns are being raised & she accepts them & the outlined plan...

OR concerns have been raised which I don't agree with & we are doing XYZ.

Transparency & openess are the key(s). If she has psyche problems they are going against ALL the perceived wisdom for handling mentally fragile patients, they HAVe to be honest with them to gain trust & co-operation.

Theclosetpagansbesom · 02/11/2007 16:17

Yes would agree - as I said - the "secrecy" thing is a whole other discussion.

johnhemming · 02/11/2007 20:29

I can be tempted to post here, but need to know to look.

The key point about Rachel Pullen's case is that it was the local authority's expert that effectively stopped her opposing the adoption.

The second Nottingham case in the public domain is yet to all become public. It will.

I cannot add more about Fran's case than she has said on the TV (see link on my weblog for a review). In any event she might post herself.

FranLyon · 02/11/2007 22:28

Hello everyone,

I'm sorry I haven't been on mumsnet recently. I've seen a couple of posts asking me to post - I wasn't ignoring you I promise - I just haven't been online as much.

I haven't read through all the posts - but I've read a fair bit and I just wanted to try and answer some of the questions I've seen. Shout if I've missed some - I've no interest in hiding anything.

Why did SS get involved with me?

They got involved after I called the police because of an incredibly difficult incident with my ex-partner. There is no lawful reason why I can't give more details, I just won't at the moment out of respect for the other people involved. However, even social services agree that I acted protectively (of Molly) in calling the police when I did. The police, quite rightly, called social services after the incident to talk through their concerns. This resulted in everyone involved being interviewed. At this point my mental health history was fully and immediately revealed. From there, and I don't yet know how, a paediatrician became involved and raised the spectre of Munchausen's by Proxy.

What is the other side to this?

Well, obviously I can't answer that! I can say though, and it's up to you if you believe me, is that to my knowledge there are no facts in the case that aren't in the public domain. Up until this happened to me, and even now sometimes, I am sceptical of what I hear and read about the system. It seems impossible to believe that it could truly be this bad in some, hopefully rare, cases. My experience though is that once the system begins down one particular track it is very, very difficult to get them to change direction.

Why not a mother and baby unit?

I wish I knew. At the moment as far as I understand the local authority haven't been able to find one which would be able to provide appropriate supervision. They have however been furnished with the details of several units which have a great deal of experience regarding Munchausen's by Proxy (verified and simply alleged), and which can also provide 24 hour supervision.

Do I still self-harm/have mad days/wail at the moon/behave in a generally objectionable fashion?

Well, no. I haven't self harmed since I was 16. I have no current mental health diagnosis. I probably could be said to be objectionable currently at times, but in my defence I'm 31 weeks pregnant and under quite some stress. (Sorry for the "tongue in cheek", but proving that a person is sane is a nigh on impossible task...sanity or lack thereof isn't a binary issue)

All I want is what I've asked for all along - a chance to give Molly the very best start in life I can. Molly deserves to be with those who love her, the chance to form those crucial attachments during the very first days and weeks of her life, and to be cared for physically by being breastfed. These are not my rights, they are Molly's. I truly believe that Molly's rights can be preserved, whilst also ensuring her most sacred right to be safe, if we are together in a Mother and Baby unit.

I hope this helps. Thanks for all the support.

Fran

edam · 02/11/2007 22:40

Just posted on the other thread, sending good wishes to Fran. But see John Hemmings is here on this one. John, I'm very glad that you are battling to protect people from what seems like a terrible series of miscarriages of justice. The abuse of due process in Rachel Pullen's case, in particular, is appalling.

bossybritches · 02/11/2007 23:01

Thank-you John & Fran by posting at this busy & stressful time for you both.

Keep us posted if there is anything we/I can do.

BatteriesNotIncluded · 02/11/2007 23:13

Just posted on other thread; didnt know this one was also live. Afraid i dont know how to do 'links' - for maximum exposure, could someone please oblige by attaching link to/from each thread?

FranLyon · 02/11/2007 23:17

Hello,

Just wanted to add this video link: www.fassit.co.uk/media/itvthismorningnov022007.wmv

It's a clip of an interview with John Hemming, Bill Bache and myself from This Morning.

Thanks again for all the support. It really does make a difference.

Fran & a very active Molly!!

bossybritches · 02/11/2007 23:46

Thanks Fran- I missed this article on This Morning as I was at work.

Bless you - the last thing you need at this time is all this media attention!

.....or is Molly practising being a Little Madam already??!

FranLyon · 03/11/2007 00:09

(Molly, like her mum, appears to be a bit of a night owl...)

bossybritches · 03/11/2007 00:18

You must be shattered after today.

Hopefully it will stir up some more positive interest from the media.

Denise Roberts was great wasn't she?

When she said " I don't understand why the mothers of GB aren't rising up against this!

I was shouting " we are on Mumsnet !!"

giggle I shout at the telly a lot unfortunately!!

Ags · 03/11/2007 00:23

I just poste on the other thread to say that I am moved and outraged by your situation Fran. I watched the interview and really admired how you dealt with it all. My thoughts are with you and Molly. Tell her to have a kip and give her Mum a rest! Please let me know if I can do anything.

Ags · 03/11/2007 00:25

I was the same! I am lying on my tummy on the floor watching it on the pc and by the end I was standing up staring down at the screen and shaking my dopey husband to watch it all over again. I am never going to get to sleep. Molly and me, feeling very lively!

FranLyon · 03/11/2007 01:16

Hi,

I've just read the whole thread through and just wanted to add one last thing. I have not been diagnosed with munchausen's syndrome myself. Over the past few weeks I've had a psychiatric assessment for social services (having the forensic psychological assessment next Tuesday). The psychiatrist conducting the assessment said explicitly that I do not have munchausen's.

Sorry I didn't pick up that query with my first post.

Thanks,

Fran

BatteriesNotIncluded · 03/11/2007 05:32

Bump

TheMolesMother · 03/11/2007 07:53

My thoughts are with you, Fran. Hope it all works out for you and Molly.

MM

edam · 03/11/2007 10:17

bump

WideWebWitch · 03/11/2007 10:29

fran thank you for posting and answering those questions. Plenty of us here are rooting for you.

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