Rather terrifying article about social workers attempting to take baby from its mother as soon as its born.

[Callisto]

It was in the Sunday Telegraph which I got round to reading last night. The story plus a couple of related articles is here: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/26/nbaby126.xml

I think they've been frightened off because of the secrecy rules of the family court. They wouldn't have been able to interview anybody so it would have been hard to put together a story. You'll notice in that story that Lawrence is now an adult thus has no "best interests" for the court to protect.

My guess is that this will be a huge story next week given the incredibly dramatic and worrying nature of the claims against Southall. I can't imagine jounalists will ignore it.

I really hope they don't ignore.

Well this lot aren't......

dear god it's happening again

Jesus, the council appoints a psychiatrist who conveniently rules that she is unable to instruct a solicitor, so the court takes hers from her and the one they appoint tells the court that he agrees her child should be taken. What in the world?

Even Ian Huntley was allowed to instruct his defence to make the most ridiculous appalling claims in court but this woman gets no-one on her side at all.

Certainly my local paper will be running the Southall story next week, as he continues to practise at my local hospital. I'm not sure which parts of his work are the subject of the current hearing but local parents were involved in his CNEP trials and the issue of possible fraudulent consent.

I know Elizabeth I saw the headline whilst out shopping earlier today, & came home to check online.

Obviously there have been problems but to not even let her have adequate representation is diabolical, she was stiched up like a kipper poor love.

How awful.

how very, very odd not to even allow her a defence.

I have to say when I saw the headline, after all our discucssion recently, I went cold, & I stood there being one of those annoying people who reads a paper & doesn't buy it.

I had tears in my eyes & felt sooo frustrated.

I know we know nothing of the case, & we only have her word for the version of events. However as John Hemmings has taken up her case again I should think she can't be a complete fraudster. He would have to look at the case very closely before he committed himself to support it, I would have thought, for his professional credibility as much as anything else?

Even if they were right to take her baby (and it's getting harder to believe they were the more we hear about these cases) the fact that she wasn't allowed a proper defence because of their actions is just terrible.

They have to make sure that due process is followed and parents get proper representation. At the moment it appears that they believe that anything they do is correct because it is done "in the best interests of the child".

That's becoming a bit of a cover-all statement for any dicey angle they wish to persue IMHO

Good God, that Nottingham story is appalling. Whatever the family's problems or history, it's an unbelievable abuse of process for the court to sack her solicitor and force a strange solicitor on her who then refuses to plead her case!

Absolutely terrifying. Just shows the extremes SS and the family courts will go to to ensure there is NO chance of defending yourself. FFS, if the family were that bad, you wouldn't need to pull any dirty tricks.

As for Southall, he's a very strange man. There have been several investigations into him - the first, by his own trust, said 'everything's fine, don't worry' even though it was clear that the parents denied ever signing consent forms for his experiments in denying premature babies oxygen. A bigger investigation by the NHS region found all sorts of dodgy record keeping but failed to uphold the most serious allegations, I think through lack of evidence IIRC. He certainly seems to have tricked parents and used his power as a big name and someone who had the courts on his side to seize their children and force them into his experiments.

How come parents who put their children through unnecessary medical treatment are labelled with Munchausens' by Proxy, but eminent doctors who go to huge lengths to force children into unnecessary treatment are not?

I can't find anything about these stories in the online newspapers. The idea that this is not sufficiently newsworthy terrifies me.

The Nottingham case is nothing short of appalling.

Worringly, I can no longer reach Fran Lyon's website, having tried several times over the last couple of days. Has she been told to take it down, I wonder?

MM

Mm you're right- I've had no response either from the web-site of various emails supporting her. It's like a blanket has been thrown over it all.

Upwind this is the link I found

not nastional but..

Sorry about typos- posting in a hurry!

There is another Notts case I have been alerted to by John Hemming.

this is also appalling- I could hit something

That is so terrible, bb. If we're having these kind of reactions just reading the stuff imagine what it must be like for the people actually on the receiving end of it.

I can't imagine the levels of stress that Fran Lyon must be experiencing at the moment, even if she is keeping a cool calm exterior. It can't be doing her unborn baby any good at all.

Exactly my thoughts -and we are articulate (well sometimes I have my doubts about that with me but YNWIM) forceful individuals. A lot of these women & families aren't able to stand up for themselves and/or are too over-awed/bullied by "establishment" figures.

Re Fran, John Hemming said that's why they were not actively campaigning at the moment.Sorry to keep quoting him but he seems to be the only person of any authority making sense of these situations as far as one can.

It's great that you are in touch with him. I hope he and Fran think that these threads are helping, even if it's just in a very tiny way.

I'm glad John Hemmings is still supporting Fran, was a bit worried by her site being taken down. If you are in touch with him, would you let him know loads of mothers who have heard about her case are appalled by the way she's been treated, and are wishing her good luck?

The second Notts case is beyond belief. Persecuting grandparents for daring to listen to their nearly-16 yos grandson's story of being abused in care?! Good God. Makes me lose what little faith I have left in the system. I'm sure there is more to the story as the defenders of the family courts keep saying, blah blah blah, but how on earth can you justify a system that imprisons a grandparent for listening to a 15yo who complains that he has been assaulted?

So much for putting the interests of the child first.

Poor Grandparents- if they had left it till the lad was 16 then he could have told them, as he would have been "released" as the authorities put it. How awful would they have felt knowing that their grandchild was suffering all that time & they'd not had the chance to help...grrrr.

I've found this website-first constructive help I've found for these poor families & ways we can all help.

www.fassit.co.uk

I have asked John Hemming to pass on our good wishes to Fran & let her know the concern & support she has on here. He replies;

"Fran is not gagged (as yet), but we need to remember she is pregnant and that does constrain what efforts can be placed into obtaining coverage"

sensible chap.

Oh dear have I killed this thread as well?!

I don't think so. Once the David Southall hearings at the GMC start I reckon there is going to be a lot more to say about it. According to a Welsh news source I read, they are going on for a whole month.

passing out hard--hats & popcorn

I have been thinking about this - I wonder if the MSbP "syndrome" that Meadows came up with touched a chord in people. We all know hypochondriacs and don't have to stretch our imaginations too far to the notion that people are actually seeking attention by harming their children and inducing or fabricating illness.

It has been used as a diabolical twist in lots of books (e.g. Patricia Cornwell) in movies (e.g. the Sixth Sense) and perhaps it became one of the modern boogeyman stories. Like an urban legend out of control to the extent that people who actually worked in relevant areas were looking for MSbP. Making them jump to one of the least likely diagnoses, ruling it out before thorougly investigating for physical illness.

The posters that were so vehement on the other thread in contesting Elizabeth's posts seemed to have worked in related areas. They may not be able to face the thought that they were over zealous in looking for MSbP even if they thought this was in the child's best interests at the time. I notice they stopped posting once the latest Southall stories appeared.