In England the McCanns would be arrested

[LostPuppy]

Off the bat, I of course hope with all my heart that Madeleine is returned safely

But her "parents" are a disgrace. They left Madeleine and two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie sleeping in the apartment ON THEIR OWN. They had taken turns to return from the restaurant to check on their children.

Now hang on! In this country that is illegal, for very good reason.

Even if they 'checked on them' every five minutes that's plenty of time for one of the kids to wake up and try to go to the toilet and crack it's head open slipping on the bathroom floor, or something equally disastrous. They'd never hear the screaming from a bloody restaurant down the road!

Obviously it's unlikely, but I just cant comprehend the mentality of leaving three children under 3 alone on their own, ever, let alone at night in a foreign country!

No, the OP said what he said because it will continue to go on, the 'Mark Warner' brigade will continue to consider leaving their kids in a giant shed called a 'creche' parenting while they flit around pretending they are young free and single.

Like Quattrocento, I havent spent a night alone with my wife for 7 years. But that's our choice. The McCanns made theirs.

I dont think anyone is hysterical. I just think the majority of people find this sort of post offensive and pointless.

Who has said it's ok Tiggiwinkle? Surely they're in the minority?

Everything that Quatrocenttro has written I wholeheartedly agree with. There doesn't seem such a thing as self-sacrifice within parenting any more. Very sad.

OMG. How smug and mean spirited some people are.

Love Angel - I agree the original post was in bad taste. Personally I thought it was a wind up. But threads go off in all sorts of directions and the original intention gets lost.

IF-there are plenty who have said its an acceptable thing to do on these threads over the past few weeks.

LP, is that what you're suggesting the parents were doing? Well, you'll be glad to know they will never feel young, free and single again...

So Maddie McGann has been abducted and is very probably dead because her parents werent self sacrificing enough?

Puke, puke, triple puke.

Dear Love Angel

Firstly, being in the minority does not necessarily make me wrong.

Secondly, I hope and pray for society that I am not in the minority. I hope that I am in the majority.

I hope that the majority of parents would not go out of the building and leave their toddlers alone.

Actually I disagree. There are people, including those on MN, who do/have left their child unsupervised or unwatched for periods of time, be that 5 minutes or an hour. Just do a quick search. It comes up every so often, often in preparation for holidays but at other times too.

I don't. I know I am probably over protective of my 5yo. But others do. It doesn't mean they deserve what has happened, or all this judging - not right now.

Anyway, think this whole thread is just going round in circles. It's pointless at this stage. Nothing is going to change. No one is going to convince anyone to another way of thinking right now.

Think it is time for me to leave this thread. Have been avoiding the other MM threads. Wish I had this too but was with the OP and title.

You obviously haven't been here much, LoveAngel.

I saw no 'abuse' in the OP as per MN guidelines. An opinion, yes, but 'eff off' and 'get lost'?

Rachel answered quite nicely on another thread about this case AGAIN.

I think the discussion does serve a point because it highlights their decision as contraversial. I too was very surprised that other people would have done the same because I am very risk averse and (leaving aside what I agree is the statistically very unlikely chance of an abdunction), it is not something I personally would have done. If the discussion has made one other person re-evaluate the way that they assess this sort of risk, then the discussion has served a purpose, to my mind.

For the record, I think the OP used quite strong language that I would not have chosen, but what has p*ssed me off, like, I think, Expat, is the out of hand reaction and all the threats of "having this thread deleted". To my mind, we live in a society where we have freedom of speech and should respect someone's right to state their views, even if we disagree with it. Censorship should not be according to what individual members think is or isn't appropriate... Isn't that what democracy and the free world is all about?

Quottrocento, I don't have a clue what was in the parent's minds when they left the kids. It's incomprehensible to me. I've never left dd for a second.

But maybe we have to wait for their testimony as to their reasons for this?

pmsl at your description of the 'Mark Warner brigade' - well, that would be me then!!

are you expecting some kind of prize or good parenting award because you " haven't spent a night alone with the wife for 7 years" ? that doesn't make you a good parent, it just means you are incredibly dull.

We have been on 3 Mark Warner holidays and shall continue to do so. You, no doubt , will continue to stay indoors every night of your life and watch the telly. Lucky you, lucky kids.

I don?t think it?s wrong to discuss it. I don?t think it?s right to say the mccanns got what they deserved and that they should be arrested, they will live with their decision for the rest of their lives, and have probably already paid the ultimate price for that decision, but I don?t think it?s wrong to question why someone would leave three young children alone in an apartment, turn down the available baby listening services, and go out for dinner. In fact I think now is probably the best time to have this discussion because now is when people are painfully aware of the potential consequences of such actions.

I don?t think that you can say now is a bad time, because what if Madeleine is found dead? Or what if she?s never found at all? Will the subject of whether it is/isn?t appropriate to leave a child alone in an apartment for ever be a taboo?

I have to say that I am astounded that there are people that believe it is unacceptable to:

Smack a child (and by smack I mean a tap on hand not beat with implement)
Bottlefeed (with genuine expressions of sadness at having seen people buying formula in supermarkets)
Give fruitshoots/sausage rolls
Allow children to play with toy guns

And yet those same people seem to think that it is acceptable to leave a small child in a strange place in a foreign country. Bizarre.

'Dear' Quattrocentro

I have already stated that I would never (and have never) left my son unattended in a hotel room, house or whatever. But I would also dearly hope that, should I ever have a lapse of judgement or a personality transplant or for any other reason do so and my son were to be adbucted and possibly murdered, that the majority of people wouldn't all shake their heads, cluck their tongues and talk about 'self sacrifice'.

LA kiss

Quottrocento I think you are in the majority. And you should be. Nobody should risk leaving small kids alone in my opinion.

But I still don't feel good about condemning these parents right now.

I'm just repeating myself. I also wish I hadn't got involved in this.

No Donnie

We take our holidays with our children. We dont go on holiday and give the children to Mark Warner for a fortnight. We eat as a family, we play games as a family. We have fun, as a family.

And no, I dont want a good parenting prize. I'd dearly love to have a night out alone, but until the kids are older it just isnt going to happen.

Imaginary friend - my sentiments exactly.

I have to say that, like LP, we don't get out much.

Don't think that means I get a parenting prize, and I don't think that's what the OP was looking for.

Just expressing an opinion.

I know it can't be quantified but do most people think the majority view (not just on MN) would be that it's okay to leave children and pop out to dinner nearby on a resort or the minority view?

Wow, Loveangel. The self-sacrifice comment I made (a big generalisation and not particularly pointed at anyone) seems to have touched a nerve with you.

In response to those people who have said it is the same as sitting in your garden whilst your children are asleep, I don't believe it is but I can understand that you still don't necessarily hear everything that goes on with them. However,to me it's about reducing the risks. It's highly unlikely that one of my dcs would fall out of bed,be sick,scream and I wouldn't notice for half an hour but if I was eating dinner in a seperate building the likelihood is higher.That's kind of why we make choices to reduce risks. The risk is very remote of a child being abducted but it is a higher risk surely if you leave your children alone regularly on an evening. It still shouldn't happen to anyone. I'm absolutely sure the McCanns are living with this realisation every day which is tragic.

LoveAngel

I found putting "dear" in inverted commas a bit rude and abusive.

My interest in posting is to make the childcare point. You actually seem to agree with me in fact, because you said you would have to have a "personality transplant" before you left your infant alone.

I am glad that you wouldn't leave your child alone, but more people than you think do leave their children alone. It's not just people with trouble coping, or who have become excluded from society, as the McCanns have aptly demonstrated.

I hope that I have not appeared sanctimonious. It was not intended. There is a childcare point.