In England the McCanns would be arrested

[LostPuppy]

Off the bat, I of course hope with all my heart that Madeleine is returned safely

But her "parents" are a disgrace. They left Madeleine and two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie sleeping in the apartment ON THEIR OWN. They had taken turns to return from the restaurant to check on their children.

Now hang on! In this country that is illegal, for very good reason.

Even if they 'checked on them' every five minutes that's plenty of time for one of the kids to wake up and try to go to the toilet and crack it's head open slipping on the bathroom floor, or something equally disastrous. They'd never hear the screaming from a bloody restaurant down the road!

Obviously it's unlikely, but I just cant comprehend the mentality of leaving three children under 3 alone on their own, ever, let alone at night in a foreign country!

I've often babysat in hotel rooms and I'd never consider leaving young children alone in them. Who knows if the receptionist is listening to the baby monitor or discussing last night with the other staff?

Please please anyone who's reading this, pay someone qualified to sit with your kids if you want a night out, don't trust them to anyone unless they are sitting in your hotel bedroom with them.

In my hometown, a boy left unattended in a car whilst his mother ran an errand was killed yesterday. Comments from readers as well on this case:
houstonchronicle

I don't agree with the nspcc on almost all counts and that extends to their guidelines too

Pinball

Whether or not you agree with the NSPCC (don't want to go there - they seem perfectly innocuous to me - but please let's not get into that) does this mean you would happily nip off to have dinner under the circumstances of the McCanns?

Really?

read the thread

Qu, yes, quite happily both before and after.

Even now I'm in my office and 4 children are in the house or are they? They might have run out the door (youngest are 8) or been kidnapped but I'm not checking every 2 minutes. You just take a view. Clearly you think the leaving in a room in these MW type complexes and going to eat is wrong but I don't. We would make sure they were asleep (and often that took a while - remember lots of occasions one of us would go over for dinner and the other would be with the youngest getting them to sleep for quite a while) and then lock up the villa securely and walk the few yards wo where you eat which is no further than in some houses going downstairs or into the garden to eat and then you keep going back to check on them. It works fine.

There is an old thread on MN about this - started IIRC by Countessdracula, you will find it if you search teh archives. I bumped it into active convos soon after Madeleine went missing as so many people were saying they wouldn't ahve left teh children. I thought it might be useful for people to see what the response to this question was when we didn;t have a recent child abduction to colour our views.

The thread gives a fair view of what people find reasonable and will find reasonable again once perspective has regained. IIRC it was fairly evening split between those that would leave a toddler and those that wouldn't.

I can't say for sure that I would have done the same as the McCanns, as I wasn't there and don't know exactly the lay of the land. As I have said further down the thread though, I have done very similar things to the McCanns and I dare say I will again in the future. I am a reasonable parent, in the mainstream of views on most parenting matters. I think I am pretty typical really. If I would, I imagine a fair few others would too!

Cod is right though, this thread really is like putting the boot in while someone is on the ground!

yes that was an interesting thread separate restaurant and hotel wasn't it

Well Xenia, there is nothing I can say to parents who are prepared to endanger their children. Nothing at all.

Except, and here's the thing. If you are prepared to (a) ignore the law (b) endanger your children, you may think that has nothing to do with anyone else, but in fact we all live in society.

The logical consequences of this are that you have contributed to a society where this type of behaviour is acceptable and ...

caused the McCanns to think that what they did is reasonable ...

and look what happened.

It's not defensible and not reasonable. Can't we all agree on that? Or do we all want to pretend that it's okay so we can get some more me-time?

"When i hear another express and opinion which is not mine, i say to myself, he has a right to his opinion, as i to mine. Why should i question it? His error does me no injury and shall i become a Don Quixote, to bring all men by force of argument, to one opinion?"

Thomas Jefferson said that and its my favourite thing ever to be reminded of. No, we dont all have to agree, but be accepting of each others opinions.

Quattro - since you seem to be struggling - no we do not all agree. Is that CLEAR enough!

Given my name, I should be the one with the bone not you!

Expat - I can't believe that she left 4 children in a car alone with the engine running.

But again, different scenario to say leaving a child in a locked car whilst you pay for petrol.

And that is the problem - I can say what risks I would or wouldn't take because I know my kids and I would assess the circumstances. Some things are just plain stupid, others depend on the kids and the circumstances.

Yep dogsbollox - got it - message received loud and clear - lots of parents out there put themselves first - that's fine - off out now - leaving the infants without a sitter - but that's okay - you've taught me so much - silly old me -

I have told you you have got the law wrong. I am not ignoring the law. The law prohibits neglect. The McCanns and I have not neglected our children.

I doubt many parents put themselves first, to be honest.

You see when I've been to these dinners and I see parents with babies up until 10pm I think there is bad parenting and parents putting themselves first by not bothering to get their children to bed at a reasonable hour actually. So it's just different view points.

Wow expat, I am also dumbfounded by the woman leaving a bunch of kids in the car with the engine running.

Slightly related, am sure I've seen a stat somewhere about lots of kids in the US being killed by their own parents' cars - seems to average once a week or something, usually when parents are reversing 4x4s down their own drives.

She probably left it running to leave the A/C on, becuase it's already sweltering there.

Okay Xenia, now I am getting impatient. You are telling me (a solicitor btw) that I have got the law wrong. Okay maybe you know more law than I do, and maybe you don't.

You have also seen a legal opinion from someone who is probably the most eminent person in the field.

Yet you are still claiming that you know even more law than she does.

Is that what you really believe? Or is that what you want to believe to justify your position of leaving children alone?

surely wether or nto what they did is neglect is where a jury comes in>

or a lovely magistrate?

but in the case of this particular law it is open intentionally to interpretation which would have to be very considered before being decided ...

A solicitor who doesn't seem to realise that the law is not absolute but relies on interpretation and that I could procure as many different interpretations on a point of law as I have had hot dinners!

Are you a conveyencing solicitor per chance?

heheh
even a lowly mag cna suss hat she hasnt been into court a lot maybe?

Maybe she's just 'an office girl'

Im amazed that a legal professional like 40 hundreds doesn't realise that the law is not clearcut..if it was then lawyers would be a bit short of work