In England the McCanns would be arrested

[LostPuppy]

Off the bat, I of course hope with all my heart that Madeleine is returned safely

But her "parents" are a disgrace. They left Madeleine and two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie sleeping in the apartment ON THEIR OWN. They had taken turns to return from the restaurant to check on their children.

Now hang on! In this country that is illegal, for very good reason.

Even if they 'checked on them' every five minutes that's plenty of time for one of the kids to wake up and try to go to the toilet and crack it's head open slipping on the bathroom floor, or something equally disastrous. They'd never hear the screaming from a bloody restaurant down the road!

Obviously it's unlikely, but I just cant comprehend the mentality of leaving three children under 3 alone on their own, ever, let alone at night in a foreign country!

what sort of baby listening do they offer at calcot manor and ickworth cos we are thinking of going to one of those.

I agree with Bigbird and AImsmum.Everyone in RL is questioning their initial decision. Why is that so hard for some MN'snetters to accept ?

i dunno. i would still leave ds with a baby listening service, but i don't think i would shout that from the rooftops atm. i wouldn't go as far as saying what the mccann's did was wrong if people were discussing it but i don't think i'd say i would probably still do the same thing.

nappyaddict - Ickworth have a monitor in the room which is monitored by reception - but I couldn't swear whether there would be someone in reception every moment?

OT: Personally I don't think Ickworth is worth the money.

Nappy Addict - They work on the same principle as domestic monitors, you switch them on before you leave the room, and then go straight to the reception where they test that they are working and the child can be heard breathing / sleeping etc.

They are connected to the reception desk and as soon as a noise is heard, (wakening, crying, or just messing about!) someone comes and tells you and you go off to the room to see the children.

You let reception know when you are returning to your room, and turn off the monitor when you get back, otherwise reception will phone your room and ask you to turn it off, as you are obviously back

Have been thinking all day about the people who have been saying this thread should be deleted.

The point is, we live in a country where we have free speech. You might not agree with something someone says, but you can't 'delete' it in real life, so why do you try to do it here? The whole point about MN is that it gives all kinds of people the chance to (anonymously) express their views. If you don't want to encounter different views from your own, don't get involved in online chat like this. I peronsally am proud to live in a country where censorship does not exist.

what about calcot?

The baby listening at places like Ickworth is monitored only every five minutes or so - or you can go and check it yourself. If something happens when no-one is actually listening though, you wouldn't know.

wow every 5 minutes thats very good. its usually only every 20 minutes at a lot of places.

Nappyaddict. Calcot was really lovely- but rooms in the annexe are across courtyard from main hotel approx 10 metres. These are the rooms we stayed in, same monitorng as i previously mentioned.

Baby listening though is a very different thing to leaving little ones alone completely

We used those services in Cornwall for 4 years (used to be trevelgue, not sure what is now)

That listening service was a woman sitting for the whole evening watching a switchboard light up. It was very sensitive to sounds and she would come tell us if one of the children were snuffling, moving alot ect. The rooms were locked too. They also laid on well staffed, safe creches for all ages. That I can understand, especially the way children are not welcome in the majority of restaurants in this country. I can't understand not taking children to eat in restaurants anywhere in the med though. Children are wanted and respected in every country I have been to.

I am talking about leaving those children completely alone, out of earshot for anyone, let alone the parents. They made a poor choice imo (and everyone else I have spoken to)

Again though, this is not a situation that anyone 'deserves' and I still hoping that little one is found safe

One point I have learned about on this strand is the Mark Warner ethos.

Am I alone in thinking their ethos is perfectly ghastly? Is it true that (as one poster suggested) they don't allow children in the restaurants in the evenings?

That's just unreal.

i disagree. it is not completely different. a lot of hotels only check every 20 or 30 mins. that is exactly the same as madeleine's parents have said that they did.

Mw is not realy child friendly.

No it is not true Quattro. A few of the sites have one restaurant put aside for adults only. You can have your children with you at the main restaurant if you want, but the majority of families with under5s tend to use the babylistening or a babysitter.

However children can either have high tea at 5 or dinner from 7:30. Nothing stopping you from giving them tea at 5 and then bringing them down in a buggy at dinnertime - but this doesn't work for every family (ds1 never slept in his buggy fromt he age of 1), and I can imagine having 3 children beside you in buggies would make it difficult for you to be served at all.

On the baby listening service issue - I thought that did what it said on the tin.

I mean - isn't it meant to be used for babies safe in their cots? To check if they are crying?

Surely it's not appropriate for toddlers who can roam freely (out of the hotel room) when awake.

Tombley - You're probably right about the grandmother in Merseyside being charged with Manslaughter - it seems more appropriate, though I seem to remember news reports at the time saying she'd been charged with Murder ...

I'm extremely uncomfortable with the idea of charitable funds being used to pay for the McCann's legal fees in this case. If it turns out that there was no abductor but that the child simply got out of the room and wondered off into the night, that makes them culpable. Will they face charges in that instance? Should they? And more to the point, if they do, would you want your money to pay for their legal defence?

Free speech isn't the issue- you can obviously say what you like. The point is about manners and compassion and some people here are very much lacking in both.

I have used the baby listening services - corrupt hotel staff (don't think that they are "enhanced CRB checked" or guests can easily slip through regardless of baby listener.

So what about all of those parents using this service then?

The only MW place I have ever actually been to was on Hayling Island back in the late 90?s (couple of hours visiting a friend on the way back from a trip to France via Portsmouth) and that particular place at that time was COMPLETELY child free ? My sister and I were the only people under 40 there!!!

Quattro - it depends on the set-up. In some MW resorts the nannies are positioned on each hotel corridor who would spot an attempted escapee. You can't generalise - you need to assess what is being offered at each location. MW also refer to "room listening".

ValnBen - I think that you are thinking of Warner holidays - UK based hols for seniors (adults only), rather than Mark Warner (skiing and beach hols.

ToughDaddy

I have seen some abusive mumsnetters, but my experience is that if you just tell them calmly that they have been abusive sometimes they even apologise. Sometimes ...

You know I don't agree that it is in some way bad mannered to discuss this issue. This is the hot topic that is being discussed in offices, at school gates, in the train ... Why should it not be discussed on Mumsnet?

Oh ? LadyM ? you could be right there

I think Quattro, that MN cannot really be likened to a private conversation on a train, etc (certainly Gina Ford and her henchmen didn't think so).

lostpuppy, you are right, however thinking like this does not help in any way. Madeleine is still missing, what on earth are you trying to prove/say that this nation hasn't already thought of.... please... it really doesn't help at this precise moment of time. Yes, as parents they have made a mistake, we all do. but think about the little girl, out there without her parents, which is what she NEEDS. HOPEFULLY one day...