In England the McCanns would be arrested

[LostPuppy]

Off the bat, I of course hope with all my heart that Madeleine is returned safely

But her "parents" are a disgrace. They left Madeleine and two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie sleeping in the apartment ON THEIR OWN. They had taken turns to return from the restaurant to check on their children.

Now hang on! In this country that is illegal, for very good reason.

Even if they 'checked on them' every five minutes that's plenty of time for one of the kids to wake up and try to go to the toilet and crack it's head open slipping on the bathroom floor, or something equally disastrous. They'd never hear the screaming from a bloody restaurant down the road!

Obviously it's unlikely, but I just cant comprehend the mentality of leaving three children under 3 alone on their own, ever, let alone at night in a foreign country!

BUt mrs Spoon, don't you think that general publics opinion and media coverage would be slightly different if it was Waynetta style parents? Because I do agree with whoever said it on here...the parents then would be ripped to shreds by the media for their eglective behaviour just for the sake of a piss up...

mrsspoon those figures would work out as 2100 kids abducted by strangers in the US every year

' Some of the scenarios presented are just ludicrous in an attempt to justify leaving 3 babies under the age of 4 in a ground floor flat and in a back bedroom right beside a road. '

sorry?? If thats where you live (as opposd to a hotel) what are you supposed to do?

I suspect the main reason madeleines xcase ahs got so much publicity is that she's from the UK (as opposed to a child who disappears in central Africa, or is newly arrived ina country with little trace of their whereabouts- such as that Adam case where they found the torso), and she is 4.

you often hear of kids in their teens who vanish in a huff for a few days, even teens who are taken are probably assumed to have done this, wheras Madeliene cant ahve runaway at her age

Maybe it's not a great place then to take your young Family, too....
Or, maybe eat earlier and have drinks on teh terrace/Balcony or in your rooms, or whatever...

Peachy, surely you are not suggesting that if you leave your children home alone...ground floor flat or not, holiday or not...

Message withdrawn

I'm curious as to whether it is actually better to leave a complete stranger babysitting your children in the room.

Also been asked before; has it been conclusively proven that the child WAS abducted as opposed to wandered out of an unsecure room in search of her parents?

Peachy, meant that towards this bit of your post:
"' Some of the scenarios presented are just ludicrous in an attempt to justify leaving 3 babies under the age of 4 in a ground floor flat and in a back bedroom right beside a road. '

sorry?? If thats where you live (as opposd to a hotel) what are you supposed to do? "

Agree with SP.

3andnomore IIRC it was the family's idea to launch the poster campaign, set up the website, the fund, also IIRC the family arranged the publicity at the football game that Aimsum has mentioned as it was two Spanish teams who were playing. All of these things newsworthy in themselves causing news broadcasts and articles in the paper.

TBH I don't blame them if it was my child I think I would do the same.

According to thisthis the figure for stranger abduction is the US is actually about 300 a year.

soupy, personally don't think a stranger as a Babysitter is that great, neither...

There was a case last year where a young single mum (in the UK) left her baby for 2 hours to go clubbing, and he died of SIDS while she was out. She was given a 3 year sentence if I recall correctly.

god no, but Iread that as alone in the sene of nobody else in the room

whereas a parent could quite easily leave a child alone and yet be next door watching tv in their living room

I think though that a lot of the reason for the huge amounts of speculation/annalysis is the fact that the media aren?t constantly being updated as to what?s happening. When holly/Jessica/sarah payne went missing the police were giving regular statements, updating on their progress and reiterating facts about people they wanted to talk to etc. To the extent that the media see it almost as their right to know what?s going on. In this case, because of Portuguese law, the media are not getting those updates, and I think this frustrates them hugely, to the extent that they need to do something to keep this in the public eye, and that something is to have maddy days/yellow ribbon wearing etc, and the rest of the ?updates? they make up as they go along to make it look as if they?re well-informed.

Actually thinking about it- if someone wanted to get in upstairs in our biggish house, I'm not certawin I would hear if the TV was on.

morningpaper - i rememeber that story.

MOrningpaper, oh that is awful!
And o.k. Mrs. Spoon hm...o.k. they are pro active then....

serious question here

do you think the tide is beginning to turn on the family a bit?

because of the media coverage etc?

Peachy, I relaly son't think watching tv in the room next door or downstairs can be comapred to leaving any child alone in a hotleroom, or leaving the home completely....

Message withdrawn

OK I would never ever leave my kids alone like that but I am a bit over protective and have had councelling to try and become a bit less anxious. Well it was hypnotherapy. I thought about saying to the hypnotist to make sure that she knew I still needed to be wary for my kids but I figured that went against what I was trying to achieve. I have not changed much. I am still an over anxious Mum and could never imagine doing what they did BUT I don't think it is helpful to focus on that.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone I say.

I think its really unfair to slag off the parents for this. I don't know if the people who are doing this are familiar with the Mark Warner ethos but the whole point of the holiday is that you ALL get to have a holiday. Spending the evening away from your kids is actively promoted. children are not welcome in the restaurants for evening meals. Not all families like to spend every living moment together and in MW you lie by the pool whilst your kids are in holiday clubs and in the evenings parents go to the restaurants whilst there is a babylistening service. the nannies listen at the doors and come down with your table number if your child is crying. I understand that this was actually the only MW resort which did not offer this service so their choice was hiring a babysitter (a stranger - you would be worried about this no?) or the creche which was clearly not suited to their young children. So they put them to bed and went to a restaurant on the resort. they came back regularly to check on them just as the nannies would have done if there was baby listening.

Now, I have looked at and considered MW holidays on 3 seperate occasions and I have opted for self catering rather than MW because I didn't like the ethos of the nighttime thing. My children are only 5 and 2 and not in cots. I knew I wouldn't relax if I had to come and check them every 5 mins and come crashing in waking them up at 10 PM or whatever. But I never ever reasoned that was because they would be abducted FFS. But I have lots of friends who have done the MW thing and its unfair to criticise a family for thinking they were safe when probably every other family on the resort where doing the same thing.

You have to understand its a false environment, a little britain, cloistered and protected, nannies, everyone from (usually) the south of england, and it costs a flippin fortune. about £1000 per person. The whole atmosphere and ethos is that parents get to be independent in the evening. FWIW Powder Byrne another upmarket company charge even more and do exactly the same thing in 5 star resorts for even more money.

It has turned out that this sort of holiday can end in complete tragedy but to say the parents should be arrested is ludicrous. You would have to arrest probably millions of consumers of this sort of holiday where it is actively promoted. They thought they were safe and they weren't. They are the ones who are paying the price for having made what turned out to be a bad decision. But there by the grace of god go all of us.

yes but going clubbing and leaving a baby is hardly the same is it. unless the club was next door and she was checking the baby every half an hour which i doubt was the case.

3andnomore youre right, but that was how I (mis) interpreted your post, sorry

Forgot about that Aimsmum, however I'm going to say this, duck for cover and leave to find my own children who aren't in bed yet , I don't really want to bring religion into it but big Scottish Catholic family - Celtic game?