"Alfie's Army" and long term implications

[Andromeida59]

I think that there has been so much scaremongering around the hospital and expertise of the medical professionals that I genuinely feel that this will put some of from having their children treated because of the mass hysteria created around this case.

I have been gobsmacked by so much that I've seen around the Alfie Evans case. Personally, I don't think I've ever seen such rabid paranoia and conspiracy theories (lethal injections, Big Pharma, organs for cash etc.). I'm also trying to understand the mentality behind "Alfie's Army". I think what started off as well intentioned "thoughts and prayers" etc. has now escalated in to something that even the family will not be able to control. I also think it's only a matter of time before the "Army" turn on the father.

I do think that hospitals make mistakes and of course medical professionals will not always be right but there seems to have been an escalation in animosity since the Charlie Gard case. I think that next time a case of this type occurs, the outcome could be far worse because who would have imagined we would have seen protesters attempting to "storm" a children's hospital?

Also, really don't understand the "the child belongs to the parents ergo it's up to the parents to do what they want" attitude. I'm not a parent (and I don't think being a parent suddenly endows parents with a wealth of medical and legal knowledge) but surely people understand that children do not "belong" to them?

The thing about echo chambers is they’re so comfortable and reassuring. Just like this one.

"The thing about echo chambers is they’re so comfortable and reassuring."

And they're only really identifiable from the outside, and like frog boiling-in-water the nice, cosy, mutually reinforcing group don't actually see how far they're going, and will take extreme offence if you don't agree that they're right. And it's often true that their position has an internal logic, but that doesn't mean it's either a) right or b) the only valid way of seeing things or let alone c) the natural,p and correct way of seeing things that everyone really should espouse.

SM seems to be so inflammatory.

What struck me about Alfie’s Army was when I saw some of the footage, some of them were practically giddy, dancing about and chanting as if it was a football match. It made me wonder how much of a shit any of them give fir the child.

What @battle said up thread is bang on I think too.

*for

Battleax - between returning to school to study Civil Engineering, having 2 DCs with significant medical/developmental needs, coaching Special Olympics and dealing with medical issues of my own... the NN seems apropos.

And it is 2:12am here... I am doing last prep for an exam I sit tomorrow while I wait to give my youngest her night meds. This is our reality - I often forget that it is not everyone's.

And they're only really identifiable from the outside, and like frog boiling-in-water the nice, cosy, mutually reinforcing group don't actually see how far they're going, and will take extreme offence if you don't agree that they're right.

Quite. It’s all quite depressing if you think about it too long. I don’t see a solution.

ust like this one.

Mumsnet? It’s constant loggerheads.

meditrina
Spot on.
All very comforting to those in them, but hostile to outside views.

I thought it might be something like that Sisyphus. That’s a hell of plateful and I don’t suppose Covil Engineering is a breeze. I hope it gets easier.

Aggression and violence has no place next to a children's hospital. No one can fail to understand the tragedy of losing a child, but there must be a point where most reasonable parents accept the inevitable and focus on ensuring their child is comfortable and peaceful. I've just seen a short news item from outside AH, the body language of one of the 'army' was seriously scary, even though it was filmed from behind him. Appalling behaviour IMO.

The fact that these people have the time to sit outside a hospital all day everyday is very telling.

I wonder if so many have become involved because they feel that the State/Govt/Big Pharma/Political system that they are so distrustful of/alienated from, now have complete control over whether their child lives or dies. I'm sure this is terrifying for many and could be behind some of the thinking.

Maybe it gives a sense of meaning or importance to their lives if they don't work.

I've seen a lot of terrifying posts on facebook . Parents saying they won't be vaccinating, or taking their child for any medical help. I've also seen a lot of people saying they will bring in breast milk for him to cure him which kind of shows the amount of understanding. Very sad situation but I stand firmly with the medical professionals.

It's a peculiar kind of working class fury, manifesting as anger at professionals. It's also a general lack of understanding of medical conditions and procedure. A dying child just fuels this, he's become a beacon for white working class frustration.

This is a very informative debate. Do we think SM will ever retrograde? It all feels slightly apocalyptic.

Arrest the loudest, ban them from NHS property forever.

I agree that the lack of critical thought, and amplification of social media have been key in this case.

I work in a profession where critical thinking has been drummed into me over a number of years as part of my training. This has then been tested on the job and in exams to a very high degree in order for me to qualify.

As such, I can assimilate large volumes of information very quickly and make a decision. The sources of information are key - knowing where to look for a reliable source. Knowing what is a dubious source etc.

it is a fabulous skill to have and spills over to all areas of my life. I'll certainly be teaching it to DC, it can be done.

The echo chamber has been mentioned by PP. I'd absolutely agree with that. I was floored by brexit and trump, it highlighted how much of my life is lived in an echo chamber. Very depressing.

There's a headline for an article in the Guardian 'Alfie Evans parents needed help, the vultures came instead'.

Being cynical I would imagine the person who set up the crowd funding has kept it. Probably just seen as another money making opportunity.

Like the fraudsters claiming money over th Grenfell fire

I don’t know about the I have a degree therefore I am cleverer than other people - rather smug? I know plenty of people who have not been to university and are pretty smart, run successful businesses etc.

And I have met many ‘educated’ people who are pretty thick - and some who believe in the God Delusion. I think some of the religious nutters are involved in these protests, many of them are pretty unpleasant.....

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/26/alfie-evans-parents-activists

The fund from CG is being used to set up a charity for parents who are going through a similar legal battle... his parents have Also been to the states to meet pence not sure if they're still in states though

Tobpreviuos posters asking about what happened to the Charlie Gard money: the Charlie Gard Foundation has been set up and is a registered charity with the aim of helping individuals and research into mitochondrial diseases. But you could have found that information yourself with a two-second Google search - why didn’t you?

cdtaylornats

Arrest the loudest, ban them from NHS property forever.

That's exactly the mentality the 'Army' display.

Reactionary and unthinking.

Perhaps they’ll all go and hurl abuse at The Donald when he arrives.

If anything, they'll support him. He knows a populist bandwagon when he sees one, and needless to say he's jumped on this one.

I think if it happens again then these things will end up being silenced like family courts