Poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal (part 2)

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

new thread as the old one is practically done.

The OPCW didn’t find any BZ.
They used a precursor of BZ as a control sample.

www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/EC/M-59/en/ecm59dg01_e_.pdf

Unless we’re suggesting that the OPCW are colluding with the British government in some sort of bizarre cover up, then this is probably a complete non-story.

So, not pushing the line it was shellfish food poisoning any more, then counterpoint?

Or is that just so last week?

So, not pushing the line it was shellfish food poisoning

Yes, it was a red herring.

It wasn't BZ. That's BS.

oh ha ha at red herring. not.

Counterpoint is a russian propaganda bot and I claim my five pounds!

More likely you're a BorisBot since you have nothing to add but lies.

I have been looking for an trustworthy source of info about the BZ claims for days, thanks for the above @PerkingFaintly.

There seems to a big empty chasm between the 'baby wipes' vs the 'caustic chemical' clean up that should surely be explained. Any Salisbury folk around? What's the feeling in town?

I have been looking for an trustworthy source of info about the BZ claims for days, thanks for the above @PerkingFaintly.

Bit a Freudian slip there, Betty, with your an that usually precedes untrustworthy.

Interesting comments on this fb post about an article from Salisbury Journal, a number of concerned Mums who took their babies to be registered are v concerned. Salisbury lost its 24 hour police service sometime ago and the local police have been sharing offices on a 9-5 (apols if hours slightly wrong) with council offices.

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1622306841151142&id=160384677343373

I thought the word untrustworthy might sting.

Yes, it was a red herring

Yeah, we do grasp that you're a distributor of red herrings, counterpoint.

Oh I'm good to go with "Lavrov's pants are on fire", Betty. That'll sting even more.

I thought the word untrustworthy might sting.

Yes, poor Perking has been well stung.

Keep 'em coming @PerkingFaintly. It's a bit like walking the dog, feeding the fish, playing with the bot

I thought @counterpoints reference to the Durrells very funny though. How to be British. Watch the Durrells.

And "House of Cards", Betty

www.telegraph.co.uk/on-demand/2017/10/17/russian-hackers-learnt-us-politics-watching-house-cards/
An internet troll who has claimed he was part of a network of Russians ordered by Vladimir Putin to disrupt the 2016 US election has revealed he and his fellow trolls were tasked with watching the Netflix series House of Cards to learn about the American political system.

That was for propaganda to the US. But HoC was a British series to start with, so what do you reckon the chances?

Any Salisbury folk around? What's the feeling in town?

The feeling in town is that there are lots of things being done/said which contradict each other, and simply don't add up. People have lots of questions, and suspect that the knee-jerk reaction answers are either because the authorities don't really know, but are trying to appear decisive, or that they do know, and fear creating panic. Being rather more upfront and rather less patronising wouldn't come amiss. Same old...........

I'm sorry, Watcher, that must be really unpleasant to be living with.

I just wanted to quote what Alistair Hay, a professor of environmental toxicology at the University of Leeds, told Sputnik about the presence of BZ in the samples as he spells out the reason for its presence very clearly.

‘When OPCW sends samples to laboratories, other substances are sometimes included in the samples as what is known as positive controls. It is to test the competence of the laboratories. They have to be able to identify this positive control in the sample. If they are not able to do this then all their results are thrown into doubt. A precursor of BZ, Quinuclidin-3-ol… was used as the positive control. It was deliberately added to one or more samples. None of the laboratories knew this. They simply report what they find in the samples. … So, BZ was present simply as a control.’

I think Lavrov took a snippet of real information from a leaked document and added a dizzying amount of political spin to it. I would be intrigued to know whether it was disinformation – he knew full well that the BZ was likely to have been introduced as part of the standard operating procedures of the OPCW - or just incautious, overenthusiastic misinformation.

Another revelation from Lavrov was that decomposition products of Novichok were found. Lavrov didn’t linger on this as it wasn’t spin-worthy but, if true, it would certainly be of interest to the people of Salisbury who would like to know how quickly any residual traces of Novichok in the environment will turn into less toxic degradation products.

Thank you @Watcherintherye. An awful situation in such a lovely part of England. I will head up in the summer for a day trip.

Thanks, Perking. It feels very unpleasant at the moment.

I'm not a scientist at all, but am just trying to make sense of what's happening here, and, as a layperson, one of the main anomalies which leaps out at me is that novichock apparently degrades in water, so why is 'intense cleaning with caustic chemicals' necessary?

It wasn't necessary for the clothing and personal effects of members of the public who were in the restaurant and bar, who were told to wash their clothes and wipe over items with baby wipes. (Although Zizzi staff uniforms and the table were incinerated). How come we're now told that caustic chemicals are needed to decontaminate? They can't have it both ways.

It is such a lovely city, Betty. Have lived here 25 years, and I could almost cry at what's happened. Dreadful for the Skripals, and dreadful for Salisbury.

Yeah, I'm not a chemist either. I suppose there might be a question of how toxic the degradation products are, as "less toxic than the Novichok" might mean completely harmless.

But that's purely me speculating: I really don't know.

I hope you get some useful information from the meeting.

might NOT mean completely harmless

I'm in Salisbury too. I'd say the mood is less anxious than it was and residents are getting used to the situation. But a little more public info and answering of the obvious questions (e.g. baby wipes versus caustic chemicals) wouldn't go amiss.