Poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal (part 2)

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

new thread as the old one is practically done.

Are you listening to Queen, by any chance, counterpoint?

It was another fall from a building.

The lawyer, Nikolai Gorokhov, fell mysteriously from a building in March last year, but survived with serious injuries. (He's the lawyer for the family of another lawyer, Sergei Magnitsky, who died suspiciously in prison after exposing state gangsterism.)

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/22/sergei-magnitsky-lawyer-serious-not-critical-fall-window/

This stuff is why Russia is top of the list of suspects for poisoning the Skripals, not simply Russia's access to Novichoks.

So, we never have any mysterious deaths or killings?

Did he zip himself into a holdall first?

Who's "we" in that, counterpoint?

Well, I don't know about 'you' but when I use 'we' I mean British people governed by Boris&May as this defines me and those around me. This is why I am deeply ashamed about Boris&May's past and present actions.

So, now you know, will you answer the question?

What an odd answer. I'm afraid I don't define myself as a person governed by May: I'm a Brit in Britain and don't need such weird constructions! Theresa May is Prime Minister at the moment, but that's temporary.

However, there have certainly been mysterious deaths and known murders in the UK, if that's your underlying question. (I'm assuming you didn't mean to exclude murders by Russians in the UK, although that's how your words come across.)

There has, sadly, been a murder even after the Skripals were attacked: Nikolai Glushkov, an opponent of Putin. Recent and as yet unsolved.
Who was Russian businessman Nikolai Glushkov?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43435003

Glushkov was a friend of Boris Berizovsky, the man who gave Putin his break but who also later opposed him. Coroner gave an open verdict on Berizovsky's death.
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-weird-world-of-boris-berezovsky-alexander-litvinenkos-inquest-has-provided-an-intriguing-insight-10117927.html

Dr Matthew Puncher was found dead after working in Russia.
The Man Who Knew Too Much
His nuclear research helped a judge determine that former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko had been assassinated – likely on Putin’s orders. Just months after the verdict, the scientist himself was found stabbed to death with two knives. Police deemed it a suicide, but US intelligence officials suspect it was murder.
www.buzzfeed.com/janebradley/scientist-who-helped-connect-litvinenkos-murder-to-the?utm_term=.knQMZqqvv#.xy1rk99qq

Actually that article, and the others in the series, may be worth reading.

And then of course there are deaths and mysteries that have no known links to Russia, like the disappearance of Richey Edwards.

But what the Russian-linked deaths have in common – in the UK, in Russia, and elsewhere in the world – is an unusually large number of attacks and deaths among opposition politicians, diplomats, investigative journalists, and people who are about to testify about Russia-related corruption. Probably some of those are natural deaths (Russian whistleblower Alexander Perepilichnyy's might have been), and Russian mobsters are out of control so some deaths could simply be them exporting their feuds.

But some... Well, there's a reason for choosing polonium. It's not meant to leave doubt.

Are you trying to trade mark that phrase Counterpoint?

I don't define myself by the people who are in government - governments come and governments go. Which is fortunate, given how much I abhor many of the actions of this government.

However, that doesn't change my feelings in who was responsible for the Skripal poisonings.

What about the fact that people were moving freely in and out of The Mill and Zizzi's and the Maltings for a whole day, before they were shut

Good point watcher.

Those resident or working in Salisbury may be interested in attending the 4th public meeting about the Skripal poisoning (the previous 3 have been notable for the lack of publicity!) tomorrow at 6 o'clock at City Hall. Info about the decontamination of Salisbury, and questions fobbed off answered afterwards. Details on local radio website......... if you search for them (link underneath the Bourne Hill decontamination article).

watcher I share your concerns ,I could hardly believe it when I read that DEfra remark

The nerve agent does not evaporate or disappear over time, experts said, and intense cleaning with caustic chemicals is required to get rid of it.

and
the highest concentration of military grade Novichok nerve agent was found at Mr Skripal's house, but eight other sites are known, or thought, to be contaminated

known or thought to be ???

Perhaps it (Boris&May) was a way to ridicule them - to show May (who I think may have more sense than Boris) that how we perceive her actions stem from Boris' actions.

Boris' actions have been appalling. Whilst she has him in government, then she is associated with the bad things that come out of him.

And yes, whether 'we' like it or not, as Brits we are defined (abroad) by our government and its actions. We elected them (even though I didn't vote for them|) and we allow them to stay as our representatives. So we are responsible for the decisions they make and implement. When they ally us with the sadistic Saudis or the genociding Turks, then our hands are dirty too.

Regardless, all eyes are on Boris&May and how they will explain the findings from the Swiss state Spiez lab which analysed the OPCW samples and found that the substance used on the Skripals was an agent called BZ - a toxin that has never been produced in Russia, but used (in service) in the USA, UK, and other NATO states.

The only source I can find for your claim that something called BZ was also found is the Russian foreign minister, Lavrov, quoted by the Russian news agency Tass and by Russia Today (RT).

Which one are you quoting, counterpoint?

It was reported in some New York article and analysed by the hedgefund site.

I know we have news censoring despite what people think.

Are you saying the Swiss lab is wrong?

This is the statement today by the Swiss representative to the OPCW.

Looks like you bought a pup, counterpoint.

www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/EC/M-58/en/58th_Meeting_of_the_Executive_Council_Statement_delivered_by_Ms._Nadine_Olivieri_Lozano_Deputy_Permanent_Representative_of_Switzerland_to_the_OPCW.pdf

Does that deny the BZ findings? No!

What BZ findings? You still haven't coughed up a link to your source. Which ultimately seems to be Lavrov.

It's taken the Swiss several days to come up with something to keep them neutral now. But the scientists spoke out.

www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-14/independent-swiss-lab-says-bz-toxin-used-skripal-poisoning-usuk-produced-not

There's been another death of a Russian investigative journalist, after what I said above about how brave people were.

Does the death of our dearly beloved Guardian journalist not figure then?

So as predicted, counterpoint's source is Sergei Lavrov, Russian foreign minister.

The Swiss are clearly pissed off. Very politely, of course.

Their statement wasn't C&P-able, so I've typed a bit out in case anyone couldn't read the teeny image:
Switzerland believes that the Russian Federation has legitimate questions to answer and must contribute to the clarification of fact. Switzerland calls on Russia to cooperate with the UK authorities in their investigation and to provide relevant information clarifying the facts and the origin of the nerve agent.
[...]
Before I conclude, Mr. Chairperson, my Government wishes to express its incomprehension about a statement by Russia regarding the Swiss designated laboratory at Spiez. Whether or not Spiez was one of the designated laboratories involved in the analysis of the Salisbury samples, an analysis report of our designated laboratory would not have been drafted in the way and contained the type of language alleged to be a quote from a Spiez Laboratory report. I am referring to an English language translation of a statement by the Russian Foreign Minister available on the official website of the Ministry.

How such a statement could be made is incomprehensible to us. Such actions weaken the credibility and integrity of this Organisation and are as such absolutely unacceptable. The confidentiality agreements between the OPCW and its designated laboratories precisely exist to ensure the impartiality of the analysis. In this context, we thank the Director-General and the head of the OPCW laboratory for the clarifying remarks at the beginning of this session.

Actually, BZ would make more sense, given its characteristics, and the atypical presentation, in the case of the Skripals, of what was said to be novichok.

A tiny amount of novichok is deadly, yet the Skripals survived. Novichok usually acts immediately, BZ is described as slow in onset and long in duration, and is survivable. Symptoms of BZ poisoning include “woolgathering,” where individuals pick at clothing, at their body, or in the air. One of the first things a witness to the couple on the bench noticed, was Yulia plucking at the air.

BZ is odorless. It is stable in most solvents, with a half-life of three to four weeks in moist air; even heat-producing munitions can disperse it. It is extremely persistent in soil and water and on most surfaces. It is slightly soluble in water; soluble in dilute acids, trichloroethylene, dimethylformamide, most organic solvents, insoluble with aqueous alkali. (Wikipedia)

Maybe the above explains why there is to be a decontamination of The Maltings shopping precinct (open air - almost constant rain for weeks) costing £millions, lasting months and using 'caustic chemicals', when novichok apparently disperses and degrades rapidly in moisture - remember the advice just to wash clothes and use baby wipes, if you thought clothing/personal objects might be contaminated? In addition, the reason given for the apparently impaired performance of the novichok on the Skripal's front door handle is claimed to be the moisture that was in the air at the time of the attack.

I'm no expert, but the measures which are about to be taken in Salisbury seem to be more appropriate for a substance like BZ, than novichok.

Just the detail of the OPCW saying it's Novichok, then.

BTW, is there a source for saying the symptoms of Novichok poisoning aren't similar to those of other nerve agent poisonings?

There were folk on the first thread who'd dealt with poisonings affecting the nervous system, eg organophosphates, who said OPs and nerve agents as a group had similar symptoms.

The Swiss company announced their findings several days ago and there was a failure to disseminate the information through our MSM. The Swiss government's non-response is full of holes. It makes sense Boris&May would rather bury this information and explains why we rushed to bomb before Boris' lies were uncovered in the same way his Brexit lies were exposed (where is he btw?).

journal-neo.org/2018/04/16/let-s-bomb-syria-to-hell-before-the-truth-blows-up-in-our-faces/

Boris&May no longer seem to care about protecting the British public. Instead of going after facts, they have twisted data coming out of Porton Down (tried to bury data from other labs) and so intent are they on going after Russia in Syria that they have not tried to identify other possible sources of whatever harmed the Skripals.

All very fishy.