Is there a thread about the poisoning of Skripal? [title edited by MNHQ]

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

I've not seen a thread about it at all, but surely there must be?

SeaEagle most of us think not for reasons given in the thread.

It looks as though Zizzis was a secondary contamination. He probably felt really unwell and agitated as he started to sicken.

something that’s totally safe on skin for example but lethal if ingested/contact with mucous membranes or eyes.

It could be some sort of timed release decay gel carrier. Put it on the skin, it releases over an hour or two and then you either have cutaneous exposure or it aerosolises.

Or of course it could be something that just takes x amount of time for symptoms to display but that's unusual with nerve agents - they work pretty quick.

The testimony of the exposed officer will be vital. He will be able to give evidence that will pin down the time between exposure and effect and also route of transmission. He will likely be the single biggest source of useful information.

It shows you what a risk our police take - he says he was just doing his job, and he was, but that's a job where you wake up and don’t know if the worst thing you’ll encounter that day is verbal abuse, paperwork, dangerous dogs, a violent perp with a knife, or even nerve gas. to our serving officers.

"could it even be the americans?"

Doubt it. Would the US be prepared to carry out assassinations? Yes. Would they do it on the territory of an ally? Probably. Would they want to draw attention to themselves by doing it in a way that was bound to draw attention to the crime? Very much doubt it. Would the risk benefit stack up from the POV of the US official ordering the assassination? Doubt it. Would the US care about the collateral damage of the uncontrolled spread of a persistent nerve agent when those people are citizens of their closest NATO ally in their own country? Yes.

Would the assassination of Skripal advance US or Trump interests? Can't see that it would - he may still be talking to other Russians, but his info would be second hand at best. If he was anything to do with the dossier, he's done it (and assassinating him would buy lend it posthumous credence). ORBIS deny contact with him - don't know how far they can be trusted, but given that police will be going through everything to do with him, as will journos and those interested in the dossier, I think they would be remarkably foolish to lie about that (when they could have stayed silent)

Nerve agents work rapidly if inhaled or ingested. It takes rather linger from skin contact.

If people are interested in how they work, this isn't a bad article, to start with. It's focussed on VX, but they all have much the same effect in the nervous system, including Novichoks, though they are said to be rather more deadly. (It's not dissimilar from overdose of sheepdip, but rather more lethal).

meditrina I guess the link to the Trump-Russia made me just wonder. This slightly flamboyant attempted-assassination has a vindictive flavour about it ... mind you that seems to be characteristic of both Trump and Putin.

Could you post that link that you mention in 20:31?

We live in Dorset and when we get a child free day like to whizz up to Salisbury on the motorbike for a lunch and a wander round the city. We often go and sit in that park!

I was watching Boris the other day and wanted to weep with frustration. He was trying to be all tough but his comments about 'not sitting back and letting another country bring death and terror to our doorstep' made me really angry. If we are talking about Russia, this is the same country that is bombing Syria every fucking day, targeting civilian homes and hospitals. But only now is he willing to 'stand strong' against them? And do what exactly? He has no idea!

This whole case is shocking. The fact that someone managed to get this nerve agent into this country undetected or managed to make it here? Is that even possible?

Russia is a huge threat to the whole world. This, while horrendous, is minor compared to what he is capable of ordering. We should all be very afraid.

So skin contact at a similar time to an object or source that also contaminated the police officer who visited the house. Has to be low levels - a direct application to the skin by an assailant would produce reasonably fast effects ( assuming it’s a novichock type organophosphate agent which are supposedly several times more potent.) and also be less likely to be able to contaminate the officer.

The fact that someone managed to get this nerve agent into this country undetected or managed to make it here? Is that even possible?

Yes. The newer agents are designed to be undetected with current methods. They can be transported as precursors and assembled at destination.

It’s a colossal brazen ‘fuck you’ from whomever is responsible. The Uk will need to react cautiously. You can’t just go storming into Russia.

Sorry - don't know how I managed to forget to paste in the link!

theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-vx-nerve-agent-and-how-does-it-work-73603

(Presumably, if an official/governmental agency of a nation is involved, then items can be transported by diplomatic bag).

cheers :)

May is expected to announce that Russia was responsible for the poisoning tomorrow.

I was thinking of the bloke who had radioactive material added to his tea, as well as the other bloke who was stabbed with an umbrella whilst crossing a bridge

Fionne
I remember the poisoning of Markov with the poison tip umbrella in London. He was a Bulgarian who had fled to the other side of the iron curtain after expressing dissident views
At the time Putin was a KGB officer working in its Foreign Dept. It makes you wonder if he was involved at the time and has continued to champion this sort of method.
I feel really worried. Obviously the Gov are going to keep a lid on things and emphasise every one staying calm but if, as some with knowledge on here are saying, this is a persistent agent are there any more subtle effects that play out slowly down the years for those who came into contact?

(Presumably, if an official/governmental agency of a nation is involved, then items can be transported by diplomatic bag).

It makes Whisky being smuggled into Saudi Arabia in diplomatic bags pale into insignificance in comparison.

Nursy, yes. Thats the case I mentioned. I still think about it in disbelief that they poisoned someone via the tip of an umbrella. I can recall when they announced the mark had been found on the person after a fingertip examination. It was like something from a James Bond film.

I didnt know Putin was working at the Embassy at the time and I wonder if nothing will be done about this latest horror because the powers that be accept these things are the way of the Russians and we just have to accept it in the hope it doesn't happen often.

There's nothing about the case in the papers Ive read today so far. Are people already bored by it?

Fionne
Yes I find it amazing that people are not more outraged. Lots of press coverage saying how Salisbury “ going about it’s normal business”. I can see the advantage of there not being a panic but I think people should be told straight if they are at risk.
Also strikes me there would be a lot more said if this could be attributed to Isil or suchlike. It does not legitimise it because it’s spy stuff.

hah! Yes, can you imagine the change in tenure of conversations on social media if it were ISIS.

I'm not too worried about the general public coming into contact with trace amounts. I think they are dealing with a tiny tiny risk.

Yes I find it amazing that people are not more outraged.

I'm not too worried about the general public coming into contact with trace amounts. I think they are dealing with a tiny tiny risk.

From being fairly pragmatic about the whole affair, there is now a general disquiet in Salisbury about the length of time it has taken - a full 7 days - to issue any warnings at all about possible wider contamination. Also, given that some of the Zizzi's staff's uniform, and the table where the two were sitting have apparently been destroyed, people are wondering whether baby wipes are indeed effective as a decontaminant for nerve agents?

For the whole of the rest of the Sunday afternoon, and till Monday evening, people would have been likely to have been sitting at the same tables in the restaurant and pub, completely oblivious to the contaminant around them. I think people would also like to have more information about exactly what they may have come into contact with.

I'm from Salisbury and most of my family still live there. I don't think they're being told everything tbh.

I cannot really see that anyone even in Salisbury that day, never mind actually in Zizzi, hasn't thought to boil wash their clothes tbh, that advice seemed a little specious to me. I'd have scrubbed all the things and all the people there with me within an inch of their lives if it had been me, regardless of government advice almost a week later!

I also think the contamination was in the home, small (ish) dose, long lasting, causing persistent and prolonged exposure for the victims, otherwise the restaurant staff and general public would have been dropping like flies by now. This also means they could keel over seemingly with no direct cause....maybe run themselves off the road/car accident that no one would bat an eyelid at.

That small dose would also account for the comparatively rapid recovery made by the police officer since he had minimal contact at the house.
Also wondering how he managed to end up in the middle of this? If the authorities quickly suspected some sort of chemical/biological agent then why on earth send him unprotected right there to investigate the house? Is that usual in any case? Maybe looking for next of kin.

That's where my conspiracy theory starts! ;) They knew what and why and went to the house to collect something?? AND I am very intrigued by the graveyard investigations, what was all that about?

They had the restaurant closed did they not after the event?...so unlikely others were at the same table

I did hear that they had to ambulance out a woman from the office next door on the Monday...was that anything or just a false alarm?

This is from the local paper.

www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/

Pretty sure the lady by ambulance taken from the offices next door had a panic attack and was taken to hospital as a precaution. This is what I heard from someone who works in the same office.

MsHome - I think the officer was at original scene (possibly) - looked at his ID and went straight to his house. At that point it was drugs, they thought. That would make sense that he went alone too.

When he felt unwell, he drove himself to hospital. Which is why his car has been taken.

And yes, had I been in the restaurant, I’d have boiled the house and everyone’s clothes

What are all the photos of cars being taken away on the Salisbury Journal site? Are they his car?

This whole thing is so weird and I don't believe we will ever get the full story.

it's such a web of confusion out there

there's a bit from a Dr who was passing and assisted the daughter Yulia....she's fine and dandy, ditto the paramedics, so how was the policeman so unwell ?

All very confusing.