Any threads on the embryo case?

[Quootiepie]

Just wondering, as I think the decision is today...

but he did donate his sperm to fertilise her eggs

he has already made the decision I don't think he should be able to reverse it

and I'm not surprised he avoids publicity he would be vilified

If you made the consent form say that both donors gave permission for the eggs to be used by the other without further permission being required, then presumably one of them could insist on the implantation of any number of embryos whenever they felt like. Presumably Natalie Evans didn't want all six to become babies.

I can't see how the law could have said anything else and although I feel sorry for her, I think she would have been better off pursuing her dream of motherhood another way.

I remember this story when in its first legal round. I don't remember anything that sounded like hatred from him. But he clearly didn't want to be with her or, by the sound of it, have anything to do with her. Nor did he want to be someone with a genetic child that he knew nothing about. Pretty responsible I'd say.

But is it really that rigid? Would you let your ex have your embryos to implant in his new partner if he was infertile, knowing your relationship had totally broken down and become acrimonious and you might never see your children or have any say in how they were raised? I certainly wouldn't do it.

I wouldn't vilify him. If I were him, I'd do the same.

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I think it is the right decision

They are no longer together and he doesn't want children whom he will not fully engage with as a father and it isn't fair on those children either.

Sad but it wasn't to be.

This is a case of technology outstripping the development of ethical thinking . It's a shame she didn't have the embroyos implanted in her before they split - but she didn't. There is no way the judges in the European court would "force" fatherhood on this man - as he would be able to argue that he had no choice in the matter therefore he wouldn't pay any maintenance that might be required. Yes, she said that she wouldn't ask for it but sometimes events get out of your control and she might have to. Why should he have to pay for the children in that case? I'm sure that Ms Evans has every opportunity to meet someone else, use egg donation or even adopt a child. There's plenty in the world need mothering after all. Imagine how Mr Johnston's partner must have felt when the court case was raised. Would you like it if your DP's ex was demanding that he father children to her even though they'd split up?

I have folowed the case from the start, as Natalie evans liges not far from me.
Howard Johnston asked for the embryosm to be destroyed as he felt that he did not want to father a child with her after they had split up. As I understand things, he feels strongly that if a man fathers a child then he should be involved in that childs life, unlike many men who father endless streams of children and never have anything to do with them. He did not want to 'sign away ' his parental rights, as it went against all he believed in.

I feel incredibly sorry for Natalie, the chance to have a biological child has been taken away, but that was taken away by the cancer treatment, the IVF option was a chance, and sadly it was only a slim chance, whether or not Howard Johnston had consented., that the embryos would 'take' . I am not sure of the exact statistics , suree someone else here will know, but its not huge

I also feel very sorry for Howard Johnston. There have been documentaries about Natalie, she has been interviewed endlessly by all forms of the press, yet there has not been as much oppurtunity for him to put his side of the stroy.

I do not know if the decision today was right or wrong. I honestly cannot decide. But my heart goes out to both of these two people

I hope they can both find happiness and peace in the future. End of the day has anyone 'won'. Natalie has no babies, Howards name is mud No winners, only losers

God yes, could you imagine, your husband and his ex split up ten years ago, but she's still having his babies! Hideous.

but legislation catches up with cases like this

I remember when that woman wanted to have her deceased husband's children from sperm she had taken whilst he was in a coma ..

practices certainly changed after that and DH had to sign an acknowledgement that I could use the sperm he banked should he die

maybe this case will also result in procedural / contractual changes

But he did it knowing full well that he still had the opportunity to withold consent to have those embryos implanted. You cannot just move the goal posts for him.

And there are other methods still available for her. There is adoption or fostering. There are donor eggs, there is surrogacy.

There has to be a caveat about permission to implant, otherwise as I said earlier, a couple could split up acrimoniously - she could be unfaithful for example - with six more embryos in teh freezer, get divorced, the male partner remarries, yet the former partner goes on to have those six babies and claim child support for all of them, while bringing up his children with little contact. That's not fair on anyone, including the children.

I agree Aloha.

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I feel sorry for him. He's probably being spat on in the street.

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I think it was the right decision. I also think the man is acting in everyones best interests and am not suprised he does not want the embryos implanted in his ex partner.

Horribly sad for her though but it was essentially the right decision to make. Not sure why people assume he must 'hate' her.

I suppose so .. I'm more convinced it was the ethically correct decision

it just seems so damn unfair

This may have already been said but if he, by chance, had remarried an infertile woman he would have said 'hang on a sec I have some frozen embryos......'. Not so sure she would have been that understanding.

It is really sad and heartbreaking and I do feel for her but logically I think the right decision has been made.

also, given the amount of publicity this case has attracted, imagine if the ruling had gone in her favour and she had gone on to fall pregnant and give birth to his children. those children would almost certainly appear in the press at some point. how would one feel seeing pictures of your children in the media, children you didn't want to conceive because you couldn't be a full part of their lives? And what of the children? they would almost certainly be aware of the circumstances in which they were conceived. way to screw up a child, to have it find out its biological father faught, went to court even, to prevent that child from being conceived.

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Not read the thread but think right decision has been made. It'd be vile to be forced to become a parent with an ex-partner you may no longer like/may even loath. I do feel sorry for her but also feel sorry for him having to go through this.

Nothing to add really, other than that I think that absolutely the right decision was made. Feel very sorry for her though.