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Charlie Gard 20

999 replies

CremeFresh · 27/07/2017 20:49

Don't know if anyone else has started a new thread .

OP posts:
reallyanotherone · 30/07/2017 07:55

I hope to god they don't try to change the childrens act.

the CA arose from lessons learned in the climbie case. To undo that would be utterly wrong, and so disrespectful to Victoria. Basically saying what happened to her is less important than their wants and needs as parents, and parents rights are more important than preventing harm to children.

Headofthehive55 · 30/07/2017 08:01

No I wouldn't want to change the children's act.

RJnomore1 · 30/07/2017 08:21

Oh I'm so cross with the daily mail website today headlining Charlie's "untimely death"

annandale · 30/07/2017 08:38

Well the death of an 11 month old is definitely untimely in itself, no argument there. As long as it is clear that his genetic condition killed him.

RJnomore1 · 30/07/2017 08:48

It's not Annan

No time for a goodbye : CGs parents are "distraught" at son's untimely death after hoping for a few more days to say goodbye to their son

That's full headline but thanks I hadn't really thought of it that way. You're right of course no one should die at 11 months it's just the way the headline was put that got me.

Elvisrocks · 30/07/2017 09:09

I've just donated to GOSH; it took less than five minutes. I hope others that can afford to do so will consider donating too.

PacificDogwod · 30/07/2017 09:13

My thoughts continue to be with C+C and all of Charlie's family, but also with other bereaved parents who have found Charlie's fate so distressing, particularly how it was played out in the public eye. The 'fighting' narrative has a lot to answer for Hmm.

I have also been wondering in what situation a treating doctor would make the decision to NOT intubate and ventilate a 2 month old baby?
Decisions to not ventilate people with, say, progressive respiratory problems ARE made from time to time, when the risk of never getting them off ventilation again is considered too great and the distress of having to 'switch off' a ventilator is greater than allowing a natural death to occur. Typically those patients are much older, have had longstanding health problems and their diagnosis is known.

Imagine being presented with a seemingly healthy 2 month old baby who is not thriving and then obviously must have had breathing difficulties, significant enough for him to need mechanical ventilation. Nobody knew what was wrong with him at that point. His condition is vanishingly rare. Of course he (or any child unexpectedly so grievously ill) must be treated with everything that modern medicine has to offer until it is clear what their illness might be, no matter how awful subsequent decisions to withdraw active treatment might be.

Re judgements about quality of life: these judgement calls are made all the time, of course they are. They need to be made, they are often the most important decisions about treatment plans taken. IME they are never taken lightly or without discussion, ideally with the patient, people struggle and agonise over them and of course there can be a difference of opinion, between HCP, between HCP and patients, between HCP and families, between different family members etc etc.
Good, open, fearless, repeated communication is the only thing that helps to keep everybody on the same page and has the potential to avoid such awful breakdown of relationships as the Gards and their son's treating team experienced.

PanickedMum · 30/07/2017 09:15

We all read about the parents who support chemo but not radiotherapy - they moved to Spain and their boy is doing fine after different treatment

I really wish people would bother to read the facts about this before bringing it up. Those parents have endangered their child's long term prognosis and we don't yet know what his outcome will be, it's far too soon to say.

Fekko · 30/07/2017 09:17

That is a complex case and not as black and white as people seem to think.

PacificDogwod · 30/07/2017 09:32

Pixie, that Reaction piece is excellent - thank you so much for linking to it Thanks

BananaSandwichesEveryDay · 30/07/2017 09:36

Annan, unfortunately the story is written in such a way as to blame GOSH for not allowing the parents the time to gather together enough specialist equipment and staff to allow them a few more days to say goodbye to their son. It's very sad that the parents feel GOSH is to blame, but, given their state of mind at the moment, I understand their need to blame someone. What is not OK, imo, is the way that so many media sources seem to be promoting that view, or at least, are not making it clear that this condition was never curable, right from the moment he was born, because of the illness and not because of treatment or lack of.

SimplyNigella · 30/07/2017 10:00

Across bear in mind also that many, many people have private healthcare via their employers which offers and alternative to the NHS and often faster treatment if required, but in the most serious of cases the specialism and expertise always lies with the NHS.

Ellie56 · 30/07/2017 10:09

Banana they have already had "extra time". GOSH were going to withdraw life support at the end of June and gave them extra time after they pleaded and made a video. (Time which then resulted in Donald Trump, the Pope et al wading in and another High Court case.)

When you consider that GOSH actually advised withdrawing life support at the beginning of the year, the parents have actually had 6/7 months extra time which certainly hasn't been in Charlie's best interests.

GabsAlot · 30/07/2017 10:10

morning

i also dont lik the fails headline untimely death no it wasnt-this has been goin on for months

i wish thy wouldnt be so hard on gosh i dont get their stance on this

Ceto · 30/07/2017 10:23

I hope that Charlie's case will set a precedent for future court proceedings and from very early on, ALL parties will have restrictions placed on the medical information that can be shared.

The trouble with that is you would have people shrieking about secret justice and hinting darkly at the horrors the hospitals want kept quiet.

Ceto · 30/07/2017 10:25

Even C&C agreed back in April that Charlie's quality of life was not acceptable. Once they had agreed to withdraw the case, clearly it was equally not acceptable to prolong such a poor quality of life.

IdentifiesAsYoda · 30/07/2017 10:25

Ceto

I don't think it's hard to fathom the DMs stance on this. They steadfastly love to keep their dirty feet in both sides of a National Treasure vs clickbaity populist emotive subject like this.

GabsAlot · 30/07/2017 10:26

thyr slowly losing sympathy in the comments aswell its sad its come to this but people lose interst if it feels lik its going on too much

IdentifiesAsYoda · 30/07/2017 10:26

^^ Oooh sorry, that was to GabsaLot

TheletterZ · 30/07/2017 10:31

I'm been lurking for a while and only just joined.

I do wonder if c&c's anger and wanting to allocate blame is due to the fact this was a genetic problem. Obvisouly it isn't there fault (such a tiny chance of them both being carriers) but it might be why they are lashing out so much. Also it will affect their decision to have any more children (with IVF they might be able to select embryos without the condition but I'm not sure that is possible in this case).

I go round in circles with the law being played out in public, if they made it closed courts then there can be objections they are keeping something hidden, make it too public and this is the result!

I do wonder how the Go Fund Me money works, surely you can't fundraise for one thing and then spend the money on something else entirely? A research foundation is very different from treatment and a campaign to change the (very correct in my opinion) law is totally different.

Ceto · 30/07/2017 10:34

US people - am I right in thinking that in fact in US law they operate on the same principle as the UK, i.e. that the child's best interests ultimately take precedence over the wishes of the parents?

How about in other countries?

DrSeuss · 30/07/2017 10:34

Apologies if this has been previously posted but this explained things very clearly for me-
reaction.life/charlie-gard-facts/

BananaSandwichesEveryDay · 30/07/2017 10:36

Ellie56 , I realise that. My (obviously not very well made) point was really that the media is also aware of that yet appears to ignore it. They preferr to push the 'GOSH is mean to parents'line, rather than the more realistic 'GOSH have bent over backwards to accommodate the parents'wishes but always with Charlie's best interests at the heart of their decisions', story. As a normal member of the public, I've had to search out the various documents from the court, GOSH etc, whereas I imagine the press are notified almost immediately they are published. The fact that they do not give this information the same prominence is wrong imo.

Ellie56 · 30/07/2017 10:36

One of the comments from the Daily Fail article which has been rated with approval nearly 14000 times.I couldn't agree more.

"It's time to stop reporting on Charlie and his parents. I know they are hurting but they are not the only family to lose their child over the last couple of days, they are not the only family who had to accept that their child should just receive palliative care, they are not the only family who would have liked to take their child home to die, they are not the only family who couldn't do that because of the logistics of equipment and care.They are no more or less special than these other families but the constant reporting is making them more important, and is diminishing the grief of those families who have walked the same path."

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4743006/Charlie-Gard-s-parents-distraught-son-s-untimely-death.html#ixzz4oJ1SNU1k
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bruffin · 30/07/2017 10:41

I worked in a charity accoubts.
If we raised money for a specific cause we had to set up a "restricted fund" and aparted from a small overhead we were not allowed to spend that money on anything else and that was audited.
Surely the charity commission need to start getting involved when millions are raised on gofundme type sites.