Charlie Gard (16) Future implications arising from case

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

If anyone wants to post, perhaps we could consider what implications today's case might have for others in future ... ?

Look at Jahi McMath

Catinboots...I agree with your sentiments. Hopefully MNHQ realizes how strongly people feel about the rights of a child over those of his parents.

realistically how long could they keep him living for like that with no external help?

I honestly don't know that, but what does seem certain is that no matter what happens it will all be GOSH's fault

As someone said several threads ago, they must all bitterly regret ever giving them that original "weekend to say goodbye"

From what I can make out from multiple twitter feeds, all of whom are putting it differently, Armstrong ambushed GOSH a short time ago with evidence from the family's new palliative care expert who says everything can be provided at home.

GOSH had huge trouble finding a hospice and have one that will take this on. Armstrong replied this was a second best option, the family want to go home and have in the last 24 hours found a provider that would do this.

GOSH's plan was that extubation would happen after 1 or 6-7 hours, seems to be some confusion there. Parents' plans are that they want him home for some days.

GOSH had said the issues of going home included the media and public attention and that this was the first they'd heard that the family would consider another family home.

The hospice is probably the best compromise now. It will mean that Charlie is moved to end of life care sooner rather than later/never, and his parents may feel that that's enough of a removal from Gosh to satisfy them and not drag it out any longer. Respect to any hospice taking on such a notorious and difficult case.

Do you think there might be a film crew following them? In an awful weird documentary sort of way?

More detail in Catherine Glen Foster's tweets twitter.com/cateici?lang=en

Gollop: with enormous level of interest in Charlie, only offer GOSH has been able to secure is to hospice, not home.
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CatherineGlennFoster‏ @cateici 1h1 hour ago
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Judge: If GOSH can provide team to take Charlie to hospice, can it provide team to take Charlie home??

"Let US get what WE WANT for once ".

Yup, I think that pretty much sums up what all this has been about for quite some time.

My thoughts are with poor poor Charlie, the nurses at gosh, and all the parents who (even at this very second) are losing their babies w dignity out of the public eye who we will never know about.

Catinboots..Jahi...exactly. Horrifying case of denial. Lazarus reflexes, according to a doctor.

I'm also confused as to why, if two specialists have said they can illicit pain responses in Charlie, is this being allowed to be drawn out like this?

If he's known to be in pain then surely that's enough reason to withdraw L.S as soon as is feasible in order to stop him suffering?

Are they trying to do a Jahi McMath with him?

catinb0ots

I absolutely agree. I have tried to reserve judgement, but I cannot believe what I am reading regarding the parents actions now.

"Let us get what we want" sums it up 100% for me. Charlie doesn't feature anywhere in that "we". It is not in Charlie's best interests to be moved to an unfamiliar place to die, and be bathed and put in a cot like a doll (if either of those things would even be possible given his grave state). In fact it is so far away from being in his best interests as to be an absolute farce.

I can't stop thinking of that poor little boy and his suffering. I don't know how much longer this can be left to go on for. It's not right or fair on Charlie and I fear backlash for his parents if they don't start putting Charlie first.

let us get what we want for once
but she wants the impossible - a baby who was not born with a deadly disease.
SOMEBODY needs to make her see that silence now may giver her sanity later.

At the start of this thread I hoped that yesterday's hearing would set positive precedents.
Sadly I think that today's will have longer term impacts.

Doctors are meant to do no harm
moving Charlie from GOSH will do him harm.

From the Vincent McAviney twitter feed, from earlier:

"Parents' barrister says GOSH's plan is #CharlieGard would arrive by ambulance for 6/7 hours at home before life support withdrawn."

Which seems to be the standard procedure based on what others have said on here before. Sounds, frankly, compassionate and humane. GOSH has previously found a hospice, secure transport etc etc. They have done the job that they are used to having to do, for so many children and families. But:

"Connie Yates has just shouted to GOSH barrister Katie Gollop "let us get what we want for once" on way out."

Thank you Office

I hope, if the judge orders the hospice, that this poor baby survives the journey. There was a pp who mentioned about their DC (?) passing away in an ambulance. That would be horrific and the opposite in allowing Charlie to die with dignity in my opinion.

I can understand C&C not wanting Charlie to die in hospital as it has not got good connotations for them. However i am not sure i think home would be the best either as they would continually be reminded of his last moments. A hospice seems the best all round as by all accounts they are warm and calm places to be, with attentive staff who will support them practically and emotionally. These are just my musings.

If they agree to a hospice, I really really hope the judge makes an order that its name and location are to be witheld.

But then again, what sanctions would there be if the parents or family/friends leak the information.

I pity the families of the dying in whatever hospice it is. The circus has come to down for all the wrong reasons.

I really hope dignity for everyone concerned including Charlie prevails, and the parents realise that other children are dying today also.

No-one can give them what they want, which is Charlie to be healthy.

Trauma and grief are getting in the way of them understanding that (am will do for some time, I would imagine).

If he's going to be moved to a hospice, then he might as well be moved to his home. He was after all brought home there after birth. He may as well die there in death (I can understand the rationale behind this).

But this is a very ill baby, who is dying. And also in pain, according to independent clinicians.

I have been dipping in and out of this thread. For those of you who do not like them why are you posting

I think Charlie should be allowed to pass within the next couple of days but C&C have not yet accepted that they are actually going to lose him Words mean nothing but what you feel instead and know in your heart is something completely different. They are hanging on and fighting for that last moment, that perfect death, a cure - anything to make that feeling they have go away.

You carry a baby for 9 months and then you have to said yes to ending that life early because it is the best thing for that little soul that you would kill and die for.

So although I could cheerfully shake C&C my heart bleeds for them. They are not thinking = they are feeling so perhaps we could try showing them some compassion and humanity.

I do not condone their behaviour or their words but their world of pain is all encompassing so this is why others need to step in. It is such a pity they appear not to have a good support system.

And can we try not acting like complete eejits on this thread. We are supposedly mature (I know I'm not ) so could we discuss this matter like adults - if only in respect of all the baby Charlies and their families in the world

Pardon my ignorance, and if this has been asked already. He is currently ventilated and unable to breathe unassisted, correct? So he will need to continue to be ventilated to sustain himself. How exactly will they withdraw treatment? I assume it means foods/fluids, intubation?

Many children do die in GOSH. But let's not forget a lot of children do not die there. They are cured and what better walk would you as parents make to walk your cured child out of that hospital.

Sorry but that is life.

I think GOSH's point is they are not able to offer secure transport home for Charlie to be maintained at the family home for several days, which is what the parents want.

They did - and all credit to them - appear to have managed to sort a plan a few weeks back including a police escort for him to go home, but this would be for fairly immediate extubation.

Do you know how I'm posting on this thread Nellie?

Like a mother, who ABOVE ALL ELSE wants her children's lives to be pain and suffering free to the very last second.