Charlie Gard (16) Future implications arising from case

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

If anyone wants to post, perhaps we could consider what implications today's case might have for others in future ... ?

Oh my word. Back at court this afternoon...why??

I truly do not see the point of going back to court, their baby is going to die, they need to spend every single precious second with him.

weewitch she is admin on a "save these babies" group which is about Charlie, Alfie and Charlie. She's also admin or was admin on one if the boys groups too. She doesn't seem to have any actual connection to any of them but has become a massive supporter and always is arranging psychic/ghost hunt type events to raise awareness.

Because arguing and fighting is the only way they know to cope with their grief?

As time goes on that sympathy will ebb and more and more people will be willing to challenge them|

Ive been at that stage for a while now because of the disgraceful behaviour of Charlies Army that the couple are well aware of, and also because of the hammering GOSH have had to take. Its all massive case of smoke and mirrors on the part of everyone connected with then and I only hope that one day some of them will feel ashamed of their behaviour and the very ugly goings on.

*I know it has always been the parents' and CA's narrative that there was no brain damage. The posting of those MRI scan's and the erroneous interpretation of them is what got me interested in this case in the first place.

However now that Connie has been allowed to take the stand and assert this information, unchallenged at the very end of the court case, and Chris stood outside the Courts and said exactly the same thing, it has been given credence.

GOSH has stated in their position statement that there was damage but in my opinion not clearly enough and also it is not getting an appropriate platform for the public. Instead the media are by and large going with the parents' narrative.*

That's my view - I don't understand how the parents can say that and GOSH aren't challenging it and setting the public straight.

Maybe GOSH are keeping quiet out of respect for the situation but I hope that following Charlie's passing there is an investigation or enquiry which will allow GOSH the chance to defend themselves against these accusations.

I know this is probably a very uneducated thing to say. However looking at the photo on BBC news of Charlie - not on life support and with his eyes open, I can totally understand that the parents would have thought at that stage at least that surely something could have been done for him.

I think they have released that photo now to sort of say this was what he was like if he could have had the treatment earlier. Although obviously that's an opinion not based on medical evidence.

Allington, perhaps.

With regards to the treatment and his parents talking about the passing of time, even if he'd gone to America in April for treatment isn't it right that FDA Approvsl hadn't even been given so he wouldn't have been able to have the treatment immediately anyway?

I guess I'm just musing that even if Charlie had been in America time would still have passed and deterioration occurred whilst waiting for the approval of medication?

I was always a bit unclear as SM/CA gave the impression he'd go to America and start the treatment straight away but I can't imagine it would have been that straight forward?

I thought that inside court was the only place GOSH could comment on his condition. Outside the court case they can't due to patient confidentiality, therefore can't legally refute C&Cs claims.

Farcical, bloody farcical. Where's Charlie in all this?

@GrumbleBumble

Re the brain damage - despite claims to be "an expert" CY is not medically trained and can not possibly correctly interpret EEGs MRIs etc

Exactly! Even with basic medical training you cannot interpret MRI's & EEG's unless one has specialist radiology , neurology training respectively & in a infant's case they need to be paediatric radiologist & paediatric neurologist. And even if someone can interpret these scans they cannot make a clinical decision unless they take the whole picture (how the child is ok clinical examination, physiological & biochemical parameters etc)- I do not think C&C totally understand the depth of medicine. They have always made it sound very simple- 'His body cannot produce this, so mix it in milk & give it to him & there is a 10% chance he would be a completely normal boy & he is not brain dead'- it totally fails to acknowledge his seizures, his neurological responses, his physiological & biochemical parameters' - I am by no way expecting them to know this all, but their over simplified version is half the reason why so many on CA think 'Why not give it to him?'
If it was that simple they could have privately paid for the medication to be shipped from US & given it to him in his milk in Autumn or whenever they had enough funds for it. It never is that simple.
And if CY is still on SM saying stuff about GOSH & their statements, I am just shocked - and I will leave it just at that respecting MN rules

Back in court today? Where's that news from??

Just saw this about being back in court this afternoon

There really is no relationship left between GOSH and C&C is thwre?

It reminds me of my very troubled (attachment disordered) ex-foster daughter. Her ability to deny what was in front of her, what she had done over and over again - as if by carrying on denying it she could make it different. Or rather (and realistically) that by denying it for long enough she could evade responsibility by redirecting into an endless 'yes you did / no I didn't' argument.

Of course, her absolute certainty meant that people on the periphery (e.g. teachers) were easily convinced that she was an innocent victim when she was given consequences. Those with the experience and exposure to the situation could see through it, but those getting her brief, edited version were very sympathetic and would try to 'rescue' her and intervene for leniency because it was 'just a mistake'. A mistake that only happened when it suited her, and one she repeated over and over again.

Needless to say, those of us still in her life are the ones who saw through that and loved her anyway. But the rescuers helped her to self-destruct big time i.e. teen pregnancy, dropped out of school (was very strong academically), wouldn't allow baby to be adopted but abandons him as often as possible with whoever she can get to look after him. And so the cycle goes on.

Sorry, a bit of a side track. But an illustration of how denial - especially when supported by others instead of caringly challenged - can be very destructive.

The little boy was ill, not putting on weight at 8 weeks old, so much so he was immediately brought to hospital. His destiny was sadly in his dna. A very rare condition.

Even if it were possible to move him home, I don't think it would be peaceful or safe for Charlie or the parents due to the risks of the CA, Pro-lifers and world's tabloid press turning up on the doorstep.

It's being discussed right now on Radio 2 (Jeremy Vine). Some very measured discussion and the BBC health correspondent was very clear that there is disagreement between the parents and GOSH over the interpretation of the scans. But he also pointed out how rare and dibilitating this disease is and that he'd never be a "normal boy".

I asked rozenberg just now why they were back in court and he does not know why.

Or at least if he knows why, he is not saying.

The little boy was ill, not putting on weight at 8 weeks old, so much so he was immediately brought to hospital. His destiny was sadly in his dna. A very rare condition

I have wondered if somewhere deep down his parents actually feel responsible for his condition in some way. And all this GOSH blaming is kind of blame shifting, helps them feel a bit better?
I don't know much of psychology, but am sure someone here might be able to comment.

The little boy was ill, not putting on weight at 8 weeks old, so much so he was immediately brought to hospital. His destiny was sadly in his dna. A very rare condition

I have wondered if somewhere deep down his parents actually feel responsible for his condition in some way. And all this GOSH blaming is kind of blame shifting, helps them feel a bit better?
I don't know much of psychology, but am sure someone here might be able to comment.

Someone on an earlier thread said that it took four or five hours to move their child from NICU to an ambulance in the car park for a hospital transfer.

Moving Charlie home would be in their interests, not his. He's only ever been home for 8 weeks, has no recognition of his surroundings and yet again, they are acting in their own interests. Surely the perfect compromise is for Charlie to pass quietly and peacefully in the bed he's known since October, then they can take him home for a few days in one of those cold cribs? Then they can put him in his cot and bath him etc and in complete privacy . I'm really beyond words with this latest final stamp of their feet, frankly. This should always have been about Charlie.

If the court hearing is regarding GOSH not agreeing going home for palliative care is a option, is that something within legal jurisdiction? I'd have thought only the nhs could decide what options they are able to offer in this situation?