Charlie Gard 14

[GabsAlot]

This is a thread following the legal and ethical questions raised by the recent court case involving Charlie Gard.

Please could we refrain from insulting or otherwise "bashing" his parents. It isn't in the spirit of Mumsnet and will get the threads removed.

Please could we also remember that at the heart of this case is a terminally ill baby and his heartbroken parents. There are those participating in and watching this thread for whom these issues are painful. Please let's try and be mindful of them when we post. This isn't a place for name calling or trivialising the very real pain they feel. Many parents of severely disabled children are on here.

Lastly, here are some hopefully useful reference points of facts surrounding the case.

13 July GOSH position statement on latest hearing (includes update on Charlie's condition):
www.gosh.nhs.uk/file/23611/download?token=aTPZchww

7 July GOSH statement on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/news/latest-press-releases/latest-statement-charlie-gard

June 2017 Supreme Court decision:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6rPmvGlNhA&app=desktop

May 2017 Court of Appeal Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2017/410.html

April 2017 High Court Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2017/972.html

GOSH FAQ page on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/frequently-asked-questions-about-charlie-gard-court-case

I've seen dr Ranj criticised somewhat, dunno if dr Ravi has been too.

Both perfectly good Drs (and easy on the eye so good for telly )

I can't help but notice parallels

I think because if you look at the mood of this point in history as a whole, across a huge range of issues and subjects, there really really is a massive wodge of belief that truth is an entirely personal thing, And saying "this is my truth" makes it as valid a truth as any other truth.

Some days I find all the "this is my truth, so it is real if I feel it is, and if you don't agree you are OPRESSING ME" overload gets too much.

I can't work out if the world has gone bonkers, or I'm just getting too old for this shit.

Maryz

She's an hour early going by she posted that. Think they posted yesterday that they were meeting at 12:30. Which is now.

Maybe some other people have turned up since.

Oh yes online, it definitely applies to trump, Brexit, rise of ukip, etc etc etc. It's just I'm talking about those two issues right now, on the same day

What's Dr Ranj done to "deserve" criticism?

The way the BBC describe the case, saying remove life support and a little boy, is very loaded in making people turn against GOSH.

is there a new thread up?

Gherkin, he's posted explanations on Facebook and explained why he agrees with goshs decision. Which the CA and their cronies did not like.

Poor dr ranj :(

I think it was Michael Gove who said we should dismiss the value of experts (or words to that effect). It rather implies that anyone, through great intelligence, years of studying and many years working in a highly complex area, cannot, in effect, be trusted. Gut instinct appears to be better! We don't trust doctors, the judges, the law, scientists, etc etc etc. If we don't trust the best people this country has to offer, do we want to trust the politicians, the press, FB posters? We can challenge experts but surely we must move away from fantasy and the belief that if you shout loudly enough, you will be believed without any evidence at all.

I'm talking about those two issues right now, on the same day

I'd actually forgotten you had a bill in the house today. My Inner Ostrich has evidently taken over.

I can't find the article by Dr Ravi Jayaram. Could someone post a link please?

Maryz, dr ranj does a kids programme with puppets (see picture :) ), alongside his actual doctoring (as he is an actual doctor, not an actor)

Dr Ravi seems to be more of a talking head doctor, alongside his actual doctoring

I think the BBC report is accurate. The case is actually about hearing new evidence but how else can you describe a baby and his end of life care, 11122aa?

I feel so much for all involved today especially Charlie.

It was a tv interview bore, on BBC news at about 11:15 (if you can trawl iPlayer)

Sorry online, I'm confused now, clearly having a dopey moment - what do you mean?

Drs Ravi and Ranj have both been copping some hate on twitter for giving interviews and writing GOSH-supportive articles and tweets.

Dr Ravi on FB:

https://www.facebook.com/DrRaviJ/posts/1919512344978143

https://www.facebook.com/DrRaviJ/posts/1916307315298646

Dr Ranj taking it to the coal face on twitter:

twitter.com/drranj/status/884366391259824128

https://twitter.com/alexnn_/status/885078532220751872

Thanks Beyond - I'll hunt it down.

Dr Ranj on This Morning earlier -

www.itv.com/thismorning/hot-topics/dr-ranj-on-great-ormond-street-hospital-abuse

Little boy is emotive. Baby or 11 months old should be the only words used.

FFS the links in my first post are all mixed up. Sorry.

And discontinue or withdraw life support. Remove is more negative.