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Original poster

Charlie Gard 12

999 replies

muckypup73 · 19/07/2017 11:58

This is a thread following the legal and ethical questions raised by the recent court case involving Charlie Gard.

Please could we refrain from insulting or otherwise "bashing" his parents. It isn't in the spirit of Mumsnet and will get the threads removed.

Please could we also remember that at the heart of this case is a terminally ill baby and his heartbroken parents. There are those participating in and watching this thread for whom these issues are painful. Please let's try and be mindful of them when we post. This isn't a place for name calling or trivialising the very real pain they feel. Many parents of severely disabled children are on here.

Lastly, here are some hopefully useful reference points of facts surrounding the case.

13 July GOSH position statement on latest hearing (includes update on Charlie's condition):
www.gosh.nhs.uk/file/23611/download?token=aTPZchww

7 July GOSH statement on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/news/latest-press-releases/latest-statement-charlie-gard

June 2017 Supreme Court decision:

May 2017 Court of Appeal Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2017/410.html

April 2017 High Court Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2017/972.html

GOSH FAQ page on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/frequently-asked-questions-about-charlie-gard-court-case

OP posts:
Original poster
muckypup73 · 19/07/2017 20:47

ApplesinmyPocket, because it makes a good story for them, hospital told them child was dying, next thing every tom dick and harry gets involved xx

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MeltorPeltor · 19/07/2017 20:48

I've just read he's been given American Citizenship? So now GOSH can't refuse to let him leave?

Sostenueto · 19/07/2017 20:49

The press have an agenda. Its about privatising the NHS. All you hear in the press nowadays us the mistakes and bad stories about the NHS. By repeatedly going out if their way to condemn the NHS they are assisting the government in dismantling the NHS ready for what has already started the covert privatisation of the NHS. The CG case us like gold for them.

nocoolnamesleft · 19/07/2017 20:49

It is worth bearing in mind that there is a political agenda to get rid of the NHS...

Original poster
muckypup73 · 19/07/2017 20:49

Maryz, I suspect that Hinaro will agree with Gosh, after all Gosh contacted him in the first place.

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Original poster
muckypup73 · 19/07/2017 20:50

MeltorPeltor, it does not mean nothing to be quite frank.

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Original poster
muckypup73 · 19/07/2017 20:51

MeltorPeltor, it does not mean nothing to be quite frank.

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annandale · 19/07/2017 20:51

It makes me wonder what really happened about the scans. Legally I don't think the parents have the right to block doctors if the scans were considered necessary. I really think the judge may almost have been being courteous and making sure the parents felt respected when he said he wouldn't order scans against their wishes. Maybe they never spoke against them.

Sostenueto · 19/07/2017 20:52

Charlie has not been given American citizenship! He is in Britain and USA has no jurastriction over British law and the courts. They do not rule us Brits.

Wordsaremything · 19/07/2017 20:52

tinsel we were agreeing furiously Smile
I meant it was awful teachers have no time now to go off on tangents.
Realise now how lucky I was in the quality teaching I had at school.
We're now seeing the practical effect of the rote learning kind of approach to education- exacerbated by the Internet.

Sostenueto · 19/07/2017 20:53

Getting emotional so going to have a cup of rosy Lee. Be back later when I've cooled down xx

TinselTwins · 19/07/2017 20:53

I've just read he's been given American Citizenship? So now GOSH can't refuse to let him leave?

That's double-false!

  1. Citizenship was never offered, PR is
  2. If he did have US citizenship, the US still wouldn't be able to override the courts, especially not for a dual citizen (there are rules about not interfering in each others countries in cases of dual citizens)
zeezeek · 19/07/2017 20:55

Never has there been more need for teaching of critical thinking for children, especially now, in the age of social media

I absolutely agree and I do remember being taught those skills at school and was definitely able to cope with analysing Shakespeare by O level. That wasn't me being clever, it was just assumed that we were all able to do that.

It is terrifying that young people these days (and I do count people in their late 20's as young now!) don't seem to be able to do this, especially as pp have said at a time when any and all crap is spouted in the media and in social media.

I don't just blame changes in education though, because I don't think that some parents have debates and discussions about issues like this with their children anymore.

Writerwannabe83 · 19/07/2017 20:55

i think it means parents rsponsibilty is taken away form thm-they will hav no say in anything further with rgards to charlie

But why does it need to be done?

If the Judge orders life support to be turned off then surely that's the decision made? Why does it then have to be taken further and make him a Ward of Court?

Wordsaremything · 19/07/2017 20:56

Yes miss h , quite Sad

TinselTwins · 19/07/2017 20:57

The whole PR "offer" is a meaningless gesture intended to gain political benefits for those involved, it'll probably never mean anything to charlie because:

if the court says no, they can't override that
if the court says he can travel, he would have been granted access to the US for treatment anyway (as many others are).

Meaningless gesture. (but profitable for certain causes)

GabsAlot · 19/07/2017 20:57

anna there was an emrgency hearing where the judge ordered them in the end

Original poster
muckypup73 · 19/07/2017 20:57

Writerwannabe83, the decison wasmade, but the family asked for more time, during that time instead of spending it how they should, they used it to appeal and drum up charlies army........

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TinselTwins · 19/07/2017 20:58

If the Judge orders life support to be turned off then surely that's the decision made? Why does it then have to be taken further and make him a Ward of Court?
I guess it depends on whether they are obstructive

summerbreezer · 19/07/2017 20:59

I had not realised how inexperienced Judge Francis was - he has only been on the bench since October last year:

www.iafl.com/news/nicholas-francis-appointed-high-court-judge/index.html

Not a criticism, but what a baptism of fire!

Also, I saw a post from an admin on CA that said:

This is it - Decision day. Regardless of the decision, please be there to show Connie, Chris and Charlie that they were never fighting this battle alone. If he's still fighting, WE'RE ALL STILL FIGHTING

Does this sound rather negative to anyone else, or just me?

Enchantedflamingo · 19/07/2017 21:00

Sorry if this has been explained and I'm being stupid but who/what is CA?

Enchantedflamingo · 19/07/2017 21:00

Ah, Charlie's army?

Original poster
muckypup73 · 19/07/2017 21:02

Quite frankly I could be wrong but I think it is deemed that charlie is too unwell for treatment.

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summerbreezer · 19/07/2017 21:03

Enchanted - yes, Charlie's Army :)

Writerwannabe83 · 19/07/2017 21:03

Writerwannabe83, the decison wasmade, but the family asked for more time, during that time instead of spending it how they should, they used it to appeal and drum up charlies army........

So they'd will make him a ward of court if parents start to get obstructive again, it's not just something that will automatically be done?

How long does the process take?

I can't bring myself to think about how C&C will have to cope with seeing his ventilator be turned off when it's not what they want. I can't imagine anything more heartbreaking. It's unbearable to think of them being in that position.