Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

News

Charlie Gard 12

999 replies

muckypup73 · 19/07/2017 11:58

This is a thread following the legal and ethical questions raised by the recent court case involving Charlie Gard.

Please could we refrain from insulting or otherwise "bashing" his parents. It isn't in the spirit of Mumsnet and will get the threads removed.

Please could we also remember that at the heart of this case is a terminally ill baby and his heartbroken parents. There are those participating in and watching this thread for whom these issues are painful. Please let's try and be mindful of them when we post. This isn't a place for name calling or trivialising the very real pain they feel. Many parents of severely disabled children are on here.

Lastly, here are some hopefully useful reference points of facts surrounding the case.

13 July GOSH position statement on latest hearing (includes update on Charlie's condition):
www.gosh.nhs.uk/file/23611/download?token=aTPZchww

7 July GOSH statement on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/news/latest-press-releases/latest-statement-charlie-gard

June 2017 Supreme Court decision:

May 2017 Court of Appeal Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2017/410.html

April 2017 High Court Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2017/972.html

GOSH FAQ page on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/frequently-asked-questions-about-charlie-gard-court-case

OP posts:
Writerwannabe83 · 19/07/2017 18:02

Just caught up - I can't believe how quickly these threads fill up.

I was talking to my friend about the CG case earlier as she's also a paediatric nurse and works in a Children's respite home so had vast experience in caring for children with complex and life limiting condition and she was telling me how the story about poor Charlie has really affected her and her colleagues. She said about 90% of the children they care for have a quality of life despite their condition in that in some way they are able to communicate, they have movements, they can display pleasure and they respond to interaction etc, but she said for the other 10% of their patients it can be heartbreaking caring for the child. She said that looking after a child with no quality of life is so saddening and makes her realise how cruel and unfair life can be. She said she completely understands why C&C are desperate to cling on to hope but that they also need to think about what kind of life they will be choosing for Charlie if the only possible outcome of this treatment is that he can come off the Vent and all his other problems remain.

And just to add in my experience of transporting ventilated children: On the ward I work on we do have to ventilate children should they deteriorate and then we contact the Transport Company who are specially trained to transport ventilated children to come and collect the child and take them to one of local ITU departments. They company is called the Retrieval Team and they are extremely Specialised, it can't just be 'normal' nurses who travel with sick and ventilated patients. When they arrive on our HDU department (where we have ventilated the child) it takes them on average about two hours just to transfer and stabilise the patient from our hospital bed/Cot and equipment on to their own transport trolley and monitoring equipments and pumps. Moving and transporting a sick and ventilated child is very, very risky, even when it's just an ambulance drive to another hospital I can't even imagine how incredibly dangerous it could potentially be to get Charlie to America. I can't even fathom how it could safely be done.

As I said, it would have to be a Specialised Team who accompanied him, it wouldn't just be the standard GOSH ITU nurses, and I can't even imagine anyone feeling comfortable doing such a transfer, I can't see how anyone would want to put a child at such risk or put themselves in a potential situation of Charlie arresting mid-flight and them being responsible for his medical needs.

I think I'd be saying that if the American Doctors want Charlie with them then they should be the ones to come and collect him.

I saw a recent photo earlier of Charlie wearing a football kit and he looked so, so unwell. I haven't seen the photo that has been referred to a few times in this thread (the one with his eyes open?) but it sounds from reading others comments that he looks very sick in that one too.

I hope there is closure soon and that Charlie is allowed a peaceful passing because I think that is what is going to be the outcome Flowers

My thoughts still go out to C&C and I hope they have someone supporting them properly as opposed to the kind of 'support' the CA are giving Flowers

stitchglitched · 19/07/2017 18:04

Good point Tinsel, yes I remember their statement now saying that they felt they were currently having to act in a way that was contrary to Charlie's best interests. It must be very hard for them having to do so that everyday against their wishes.

Deux · 19/07/2017 18:04

@Lunde. No one really knows. He won't be in a curtained off area of an Airbus as I understand it and from my experience of medevac he won't be on a commercial flight with other passengers.

As it's ICU, staff would need 360 degree access I think.

I stand to be corrected but to fly transatlantic he'd have to go on a Gulf-stream jet or Learjet air ambulance. It would take longer than a commercial flight (I think) and may have to stop for refuelling. All staff and staff shift changes would have to be on board or replaced at refuelling.

My DH was on a twin prop inter country air ambulance and that flight took almost 4 times the length of time than if we'd been on a commercial flight.

My DH wasn't very ill at that time but the vulnerable points were getting on the plane, take off, landing, getting off the plane into the ambulance (he'd had deteriorated on the flight) and then getting to the hospital. And add in immigration/visa fast track.

You can go twinprop transatlantic but it's probably something like stopping in Iceland, then Greenland, then maybe Newfoundland for refuelling. So all those take offs and landings..

For context it was mooted that my DH may have needed to be moved intercontinentally by ICU Air Ambulance. For him he would not have been able to go in a pressurised cabin so it would have been twin prop with multiple stops for refuelling and changing staff and staff handovers en route. That journey would have been c50 hours, Africa to London.

Maryz · 19/07/2017 18:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TinselTwins · 19/07/2017 18:11

Also since when did eyes open = not blind? blindness isn't caused by fused eyelids!

Its one thing for the parents to at least want to believe that he can see them, but how dare the press publish open eyelids as evidence that he might not be blind! They MUST know they're posting bullcrap? don't they?

I mean you don't need any medical knowledge to realise that blind people can open their eyelids??

AcrossthePond55 · 19/07/2017 18:12

Natasha I don't know if I can put it in the right words.

This sort of person (mostly Republicans, but there are ignorant people in all walks of life) don't really have the 'big picture'. They know that their roads should be good, but how that's paid for is 'not their problem'. The govt should already have that money because they 'waste so much', ergo taxes should be much less. And why should they pay for a road or a bridge in Montana anyway? They live in Nebraska, for Pete's sake!!! Same for federal funding for pretty much anything that they don't directly benefit from. Whereas I (and others like me) understand that it's 'share and share alike'. Part of my federal taxes goes for that road in Montana, part of some Montanan's taxes go to pay for a child in my state of California's college grant.

As far as equality in treatment under the law? No, actually most of those ignorant people don't. But it's not because they don't believe in equality per se, it's because they don't accept that Citizen X actually needs what they are getting, iyswim. They just need to 'buck up and get a job'.

But I expect that this attitude isn't unique to the US. I've read some similar opinions here on MN from (I assume) posters in the UK regarding benefits and social housing. Not so much the NHS, I think entitlement to that is pretty ingrained in the British psyche at this point. Although I have read a few grumbles about the fact (correct me if this is wrong) that the NHS is actually funded by a minority of citizens paying NI tax and that a majority of its users make no NI contributions.

zeezeek · 19/07/2017 18:12

Maryz - thanks. This case is getting to me a bit, especially as only a few people outside my family know about my son and it feels strange now to suddenly tell them. Plus it's very painful and private.

Natashagurdin - I do feel for you. Some of the comments about people who they know don't have children, or suspect they don't have children have been disgusting.

This case seems to have brought out the worst aspects of some people's personalities.

Maryz · 19/07/2017 18:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HysterectomyHysteria · 19/07/2017 18:21

Has the CA Facebook page been taken down?

zeezeek · 19/07/2017 18:22

a vet should have to be a dog

Just to derail slightly for amusement - I chose my dogs' vet on the basis that he has the same breed Blush

TinselTwins · 19/07/2017 18:25

Has the CA Facebook page been taken down?

Charlie's Arm is still going
But there was a Charle's Angels page that they fell out with over merchandise or something?

Maryz · 19/07/2017 18:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BeyondDrinksAndKnowsThings · 19/07/2017 18:27

"As a mother" drives me loopy too. Congratulations, you procreated - have a medal 🙄

I can still see CA, hysteria ?

TinselTwins · 19/07/2017 18:27

It's very netmummy "mummas know best" "your baby your choice"

All kinds of people can carry babies, many most certainly do not "know best"

I don't think I own my children just because I performed the biological function of birthing them!

NellieBuff · 19/07/2017 18:28

zeezeek Flowers

muckypup73 · 19/07/2017 18:29

We couldn't find anything for charlies army page

OP posts:
muckypup73 · 19/07/2017 18:30

Huge huggles zeezeek xxxxx

OP posts:
muckypup73 · 19/07/2017 18:31

I cannot see charlies army page, I wonder if facebook have taken it down because of all the complaints.

OP posts:
Fancythat69 · 19/07/2017 18:32

Its still there

Charlie Gard 12
Ellie56 · 19/07/2017 18:33

www.facebook.com/groups/265101867249571/

Still there.

TinselTwins · 19/07/2017 18:33

I've just checked CA page, it's still there & public

DarthMaiden · 19/07/2017 18:34

The Charlie's Army page is still there.

The Charlie's Fight page appears to have been deleted/suspended.

The latter was the page with the shop associated with it that I think was run by the family.

muckypup73 · 19/07/2017 18:34

Why can I not get it then?

OP posts:
BeyondDrinksAndKnowsThings · 19/07/2017 18:34

Definitely still there as of two mins ago (chopped off half of the screen to hide my name!)

Charlie Gard 12
grannytomine · 19/07/2017 18:34

In RL the only people being vocal about it are a few people who all happen to be on the lowest pay grade (no qualifications required). There are plenty of people on that grade NOT discussing it, but everyone who is fits that bill Um so people on here aren't judgemental about people with different views? They aren't sneary and don't think they are superior. Right.

Just out of interest how do you know people's pay grade?

Swipe left for the next trending thread