Issues raised by the CG case 11

[Venusflytwat]

This is a thread following the legal and ethical questions raised by the recent court case involving Charlie Gard.

Please could we refrain from insulting or otherwise "bashing" his parents. It isn't in the spirit of Mumsnet and will get the threads removed.

Please could we also remember that at the heart of this case is a terminally ill baby and his heartbroken parents. There are those participating in and watching this thread for whom these issues are painful. Please let's try and be mindful of them when we post. This isn't a place for name calling or trivialising the very real pain they feel. Many parents of severely disabled children are on here.

Lastly, here are some hopefully useful reference points of facts surrounding the case.

13 July GOSH position statement on latest hearing (includes update on Charlie's condition):
http://www.gosh.nhs.uk/file/23611/download?token=aTPZchww

7 July GOSH statement on Charlie:
http://www.gosh.nhs.uk/news/latest-press-releases/latest-statement-charlie-gard

June 2017 Supreme Court decision:

May 2017 Court of Appeal Decision:
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2017/410.html

April 2017 High Court Decision:
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2017/972.html

GOSH FAQ page on Charlie:
http://www.gosh.nhs.uk/frequently-asked-questions-about-charlie-gard-court-case

grannytomine, I do not think anyone on here thinks they are superior, do you think its ok that Charlies army get away with all these horrendous comments?

Two wrongs don't make a right. Some people do sound rather superior, I haven't been reading since thread 1 but some stuff hasn't been nice.

Grannytomine, I agree with Mucky it's not being superior it is just pointing out the irony/ stupidity of the comments on there.

They are likening GOSH to the third Reich yet they are in essence condoning medical experiments on a child without capacity to decide seemingly without considerations of the possibility that the child may suffer resulting harm/ may not benefit from it.

That's not acceptable at all, on any level.

But you thinking likening them, and presumably the American doctor, to Mengele is OK. Well I guess we will have to disagree on that one.

No one is likening the American doctor to Mengele at all.

No one has criticised the American doctor just the ridiculous comment on CA.

As far as I am aware the American Doctor hasn't said he will go ahead with the treatment at any cost to Charlie. It's CA who wants that as they think parental rights should come first.

Obviously this thread is anti anyone having a different opinion. I'll leave you to your condemning of anyone with a different opinion.

Grannytomine, the comments from CA have consistently defamed GOSH calling them liars, murderers, actively suggesting ways to spread the word that their charity status should be reversed and shouting from the rooftops that GOSH are corrupt and incompetent at every level.

This is what makes me angry. And yes, stupid comments about them being like Auschwitz and suggesting that someone should attack the hospital with bazooka is not ok on any level. I'll admit I feel a bit superior to that kind of stupid thinking yes, it's even more stupid to post it online where everyone (including the police and the courts) can see it.

And threatening to murder Gosh staff.

Grannytomine, of course I'm going to condemn someone who makes a comment likening GOSH to the third Reich.

Really? How can that be appropriate?

GOSH aim is to save lives, the doctors sign the hippocratic oath, sadly children die every single day despite the best efforts to keep them alive.

I find it very offensive that anyone could call our doctors murders and liken them to the Nazi Regime.

I have the right to say so.

murderers, I'm so angry I can't spell any more.

grannytomine, please go read through all the threads then say that.

grannytomine some things are beyond the pale and indefensible on any level of debate. A comparison to Auschwitz is one of them.

Apart from anything else, they automatically "lose" the argument for Godwin's law!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4704960/Charlie-Gard-brain-scan-April.htm

Says that Charlie has had an EEG test performed for the US Doctor....... I've been quietly reading these threads through and just honestly can't see which way this is going to go. And I don't see how these parents are going to be appeased.
My only hopes are that whatever the outcome, that the Judge orders a complete media blackout on reporting any of it. The parents are going to need a lot of privacy and protection when Charlie does inevitably lose the fight.

And there has to be a change in the law to prevent even one future case like this getting to court again. It's unthinkable and there are a lot of lessons that need to be learned very quickly.

It be tough to get a law change through because influential media back the gards viewpoint and the country is very split.

I think a media blackout would be wonderful, however in this case I fear it would only fuel conspiracy theories and cause more harm.

I can't predict which way this case is going to go either.

It's just a congregating place for anti-establishment, freeman of the land, "sick of experts" bollocks.

In some ways, yes. However, like many others I've noticed that with increasing use and access to the internet everyone thinks that they are an expert just because they can do a Google search. In some ways it is great that people have access to all this knowledge, but I do despair at how some of them lack the critical thinking skills to understand what it is really saying.

That is the issue that I have personally with CA. I'm sure some are educated to high levels, but they are just seeing someone post something and, instead of taking a moment to think "could this be wrong/biased/not the whole story" they are jumping on the bandwagon.

To really become an expert in the field you need experience as well as knowledge. I am an expert in my very small and specific field because I have been working in that area for 20-odd years. I have a broad understanding of what mitochondrial depletion syndrome is, but no where near an expert because it is not what I work on. That is what these new experts don't seem to understand.

Granny People have come on these threads and offered opposing views to the ones the majority on here hold. I would suggest most people see the dichotomy within the situation and the moral/ethical dilemma. I don't think anyone would disagree that treatment should go ahead IF Charlie could be be expected to lead a good quality life thereafter. No-one wants any parent to suffer the death of their child. But that does not seem to be the case here.

The issue is that many members of CA are not at all rational in their thought processes and are stirring up hatred in a way that is not helpful or positive for the family and the doctors. It is those people that are being condemned on here.

It would. And the Charlie Army view point is more widespread than what people think it is. A blackout halfway through a case never works.

JaneEyre70, I totally agree about the media blackout.

Also a law change will move disputes on the street.

Are they in court again today?

Blueskyinmarch well said.

If that poor baby could be helped and have a quality of life then of course I would want him to be treated. Who wouldn't?

But then so would GOSH and this case would never have had to have been brought.