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Apologising for the slave trade

366 replies

Pennies · 25/03/2007 09:26

Today marks the 200th anniversary of the slave trade and there have been calls recently for there to be a formal apology from Tony Blair and / or the Queen.

Will it make any difference?

My personal opinion is that you can't apologise for someone else's actions - it would be a bit like me apologising for Tony Blair's sanctioning of the war in Iraq (and I have never voted for him so I haven't even approvied those actions vicariously IYSWIM). It would be an empty apology, wouldn't it?

I can't see that it would ever change anything, or am I missing something.

OP posts:
Molesworth · 27/03/2007 16:38

I wouldn't bother giving him any more attention after that post

I expect his last sentence was an attempt at humour, but I didn't find it funny

ruty · 27/03/2007 16:39

Actually I love you Peachy. [I am reminding myself of one of those rather drunk girls at a teenage party now, rolling around and embracing people she hardly knows...]

KathyMCMLXXII · 27/03/2007 16:39

I should perhaps add that no I certainly don't think people should just shut up and get on with it. There is too much that needs to be sorted out first - both in terms of ongoing social problems which are the legacy of slavery and in the white community coming to terms with its past.

To give one example, I work in a heritage-related academic subject and I am aware of how recently a minority of country houses and museums have been looking at their collections and interpretation to make them more accurately reflect the contribution of black and other minority ethnic people, as well as to be more open about how British history has been intertwined with the slave trade. A start has been made in this area but it is very much just a start, and the danger is that the organisations who have done a bit will just decide they have ticked the right boxes and not do any more.

PeachyClair · 27/03/2007 16:39

Wellt hat is your right to understand it as you see fit- I know my own sould and know I need not feel any guilt.

The power is relevant, but so is colour. I have books upon books detailing the colour bias history going back to Noah, renaissance art etc. Its a complex, vvery complicated thing. But the power thing was what turned it from a completely wong perception (given many poeple at that time knew no black people- amongst those who had it was obviusly afr mroe than that) to the slave trade.

PeachyClair · 27/03/2007 16:40

Thank you Ruty

(been in the union bar today have we?)

CS1753 · 27/03/2007 16:42

Yentil - absolutely nothing wrong with mentioning colour. I just don't agree that the people with power were all white - they weren't. I am not denying they were the dominate lot. I just feel the longer the them and us mentality last (and this is not refering to anything from you) the longer society will have issues.

ruty · 27/03/2007 16:43

'if i turned up on the average white doorstep with a geneology document claiming to be part of you i would be run out of town'
Yentil you must have been subject to some serious racial abuse to feel this way. But please don't tar everyone with the same brush. And for all DC's arrogance and bluster [and i disagree with him almost all of the time] I really don't think for one moment he believes anyone who is black deserves to end up as a shop assistant serving his son because they are black. He just has really stupid and obtuse ways of putting things. [A DC apologist? I feel a bit dirty now.]

DominiConnor · 27/03/2007 16:43

Yentil I have no hatred of black people, though I must confess to not be fond of loud dumb ones, as you've experienced.

As for my god-daughter I "wormed my way in" by employing her father at rather more than three times what the average person earns.
He's a smart bloke so that may or may not have been "fair", but he had a bloody great grin on his face when I offered it to him.

My "plans" for my GD are currently to take her to see Mary Poppins as a reward for hard study.
Not being a "queen" like your daughter we see our role as helping her to be strong in a world where being black and female hands you very little on a plate.

ruty · 27/03/2007 16:44

Peachy. Not likely though. I think it is the spring air...

KathyMCMLXXII · 27/03/2007 16:47

I didn't suggest you shouldn't want to find your African roots - I understand that bit. What I understood from your post was that you had no sense of connection to this country - this is what I was hoping you would explain.

"if i turned up on the average white doorstep with a geneology document claiming to be part of you i would be run out of town"

I think you are assuming the worst about white people, to the extent that you are making an unfair generalisation. The vast majority of people on Mumsnet would not respond like that, for a start.

yentil · 27/03/2007 16:48

how very noble of you DC, now I see you for what you are. it must truely hurt you to see us in your schools, places of work and godforbid on your street. Does this employment of your forever grateful black employeee allow you to somehow fanatise about being your very own slave master. you've certainly got ideas above your station. those days are over DC. you cannot re-create your own little planatation where you take the slaves children out to tea whilst you work their fathers in the day and their mothers at night

PeachyClair · 27/03/2007 16:48

LOL

I had to turn down a vist to go to this meeting- Damn! But they started booting out lazyb people today so would have been abit sad anyhow.

Yentil, if you turrned up on my door bearing a genealogy, I would invite you in and call to DH to celebrate, because his father was abandoned at three and we have no idea of his heritage at all, although he has quite dark colouring so literally could be from anywhere. And as my brach of the family has a gene that leads to a lactose / casein intol that is usually only found in Asian people-

well-

i think anyone who believes themselves to be 'purebred' anything is barking, frankly. We;re all a hodgepodge, and the more so the human race becomes the btter it will be.

sunnywong · 27/03/2007 16:49

you are just plain rude

and you spell dreadfully for a doctor

drosophila · 27/03/2007 16:50

Yeah Ruty that was what I couldn't believe the comment about Yentil's daughter serving his son in a shop. I did read it right then.. Have to say I am shocked at that and DC has said many controversial things in the past but that is the worst by a long way.

drosophila · 27/03/2007 16:52

FGS what has spelling to do with anything!!!!!

KathyMCMLXXII · 27/03/2007 16:52

DC's children will rebel - it's not going to be up to him who they marry.

drosophila · 27/03/2007 16:54

And why is she rude? She is locked into a battle with DC and is giving as good as she gets. Deffo passionate but not sure why you think she is rude.

yentil · 27/03/2007 16:54

granted kathy; that was a generalisation based on my hatred of the likes of DC. my point was merely that if you look black you're not white, and many white people can barely acknowldge the extent of slavery, much less begin to imagine that there ancestors could have had a sinister part in it. whereas africans are generally happy for us 'lost ones' to find our way home.

i do not feel that i belong here because i have no history here. my involvement in this country is to buidling it future, for which i contribute my fair share, but i do not feel patriotic, or any loyalty to this country and i do not revel its its past; and i think our basic human instinct is to feel part of a pack and as a decent human being I would love to have a 'positive' connection to some homeland.

ruty · 27/03/2007 16:54

DC's children are going to marry....Arts Grads.

PeachyClair · 27/03/2007 16:54

ACtually- I don't think DC is wording it well and I have had to read and interpret the posts a few times before working out what he MAY ahve meant (what you need, DC< is a good Arts degree!), but I think his heart is in the right place. I may be wrong obv. I frequently am.

yentil · 27/03/2007 16:56

sunnywong. what can i say. how petty

Molesworth · 27/03/2007 16:56

the shop comment was completely uncalled for

PeachyClair · 27/03/2007 16:56

Actually Yentil, I do not belong in wales (I moved here almost 2 years ago to study)and I do see what you mean- much as I love it here. But that doesn't mean you can't learn to belong, surely? When the role we have creayed for us do not fit, we need to create new ones for ourselves.

(LOL at arts grads Ruty- great minds)

KathyMCMLXXII · 27/03/2007 16:58

"my point was merely that if you look black you're not white"

OK - that makes sense - thanks. However that view is itself based in prejudice, isn't it?

Don't you think there could ever come a time when we are generally properly educated about slavery and more aware of how it was intertwined with the history of the country? If this happened would it make you feel differently about the country?
Presumably an official apology would be a step towards this?

yentil · 27/03/2007 17:02

the shop comments was a revelation; DC slipped up. thats what DC thinks of black people. thats where DC wants to see them. Those comments will come back and bite you DC. This world is changing and you will have a bumpy ride. I won't mention your children in a negative light bacuse as innocents they have aenough on their plate without bad vibes from me.

freedom of speech is the best tool for finding out who your neighbours really are. I sure hope DC's employee finds out before its too late.

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