EU citizens and UK Settled Status

[StillGotCake]

I am fast losing the little confidence I have left in Teresa May.

The proposed arrangements for EU citizens post-Brexit are a dog's dinner.

In particular, EU citizens who have previously acquired a permanent residency card (at significant cost and in the face of excessive bureaucracy) are now told that they shouldn't have bothered. It's worthless. They will need to reapply for "Settled Status".

For the love of God, why?? Is TM determined to make the UK the most disliked nation on the planet? If EU citizens have already applied successfully for a PERMANENT residency card surely that can be simply transferred over to settled status without further bureaucracy (and fees).

I have been generally supportive of the U.K. govt in trying to navigate a pathway through Brexit, but my patience is wearing thin. They look incompetent and we are becoming a deeply unloved laughing stock.

@haveyoueverbeenconned fair enough. Let's say I am wrong about that. Fine. But back to your point about rights conferred on the EU citizens due to membership in the union. Well the UK is no longer a member is it? So is not so surprising those rights change. Yes we WERE in the EU. Operative word: were as in no longer is or no longer will be. Is that hard to understand?

And you may want to educate yourself on racism experienced by others. As I said, just becuase I have not experienced something personally does not mean I dismiss their lived experience. And yes immigration rules were increasing dramatically prejudicial against non EU citizens as immigration as a whole became a bug bear for a lot of people in this country. And since the government could not limit EU immigration due to freedom of movement the best they could do was target the non EU with increasingly unreasonable rules. The people predominantly affected by this come from countries with non white populations. That is fact

Errmm family is Carribean and Irish. thanks for the tip about educating myself on racism And I have experienced it as have my family. And NF marches and the Stop and search laws and no black no Irish

Don't need to understand through others learned experienced

BTW what you going to do if when the commonwealth disbabds and your rights are removed? When the Queen dies there is a risk

I'm guessing that will be OK. And you swerved the questions of how UK citizens will be treated in the EU. Because it doesn't matter to you or your argument

Membership of the Commonwealth doesn't confer any extra rights except for voting rights in the U.K. It won't make ANY difference to Commonwealth immigrants if the organisation disbands. It is currently more useful for the UK post Brexit than it is for any Commonwealth nation.

@haveyoueverbeenconned that is a risk I suppose just like everything in life. I am well aware that settled status is uncertain and so need to make a decision about applying for citizenship. Would I be bitter if the rules changed before happened? Of course but it is something I have come to expect from my dealings with the immigration system here.
As for how UK citizens will be treated in the EU. It would depend on the individual country they wish to go to wouldnt' t it? I can't see many of those countries refusing to allow UK citizens to visit for a holiday. As for working and living there, they would probably have to meet the individual countries requirements. I can't see any country turning away a UK citizen who could bring value or investment and expertise to their country.

LuchiMangsho the labour gap will have to filled somewhere and I think post brexit they will look to taking workers from the commonwealth but on fixed term visas with very stringent limits on settling indefinitely or taking citizenship.

Tbh the way I look at it, the EU felt as stable as a country.
For me, this idea that I should get used to the fact that I'm not welcome anymore (because I'm not) is similar to the idea that the uk has been dismantled, Scotland had taken their independance and suddenly as an English person, I woulnt be welcome there anymore.

The huge gap in what the EU represents to me (and to most people on the continent) and what it represents to British people would be fascinating if it didn't have the effect it had.
But it does mean that the situation of eu citizens is completely different than the one of Commonwealth citizens in the uk. That's why there are so many talks about preserving the rights of EU citizens in the UK (and brits in the EU).

Yep I agree fatdog

Let's bring people, use them as much as we want whilst giving them no rights whatsoever. And then discard when you have finish with them.
Much cheaper than training the same people in the country or allowing them to stay over.

Note: they might not have as many people happy to do that than they think. See again my point about the fact that the UK isn't the 'paradise' a lot of people seem to think it is for foreigners. Which will probably force them to relax the rules more. At some point.

@purplepeppers I wouldn't look at it to say you were not welcome. Because a general policy or sentiment may not affect you in day to day life. I feel discriminated and unwelcome in terms of general ill will and immigration policies against non EU citizens. But on an individual day to day level and daily interactions with work colleagues etc i do not feel unwelcome. That is becuase of where I live and the field I work in. Academia tends to be very liberal and open to immigration and exchange of ideas. A lot of academics are quite nomadic anyway. So I am lucky in that respect. So there may be EU citizens who are feel unhappy about the general direction the national sentiment has taken against them but on an individual level they may not face that discrimination in their everyday life depending on where they live and work.

Yes and this is why so many Indians I know voted Leave because they thought visa restrictions for them would improve. I have no words. Really.

@purpleppeppers i am not advocating makingbuse of people while giving them no rights but I am saying it is the likely ditection things will take. Yes many non EU citizens are awaking to the fact the UK is not el dorado and the streets are not oaved with gold. But there will be some who do not.mimd working and saving money which will enable them to have capital in their own country after a number of years or which may strengthen their CV and experience and act a a springboard to living in another country.

Name changed.

How about this: I got permanent leave to remain in 2010 when my son was born and applied for a British passport for him, which he got (because I completed the long PLR doc). Home office at the time didn't issue cards as a matter of course - just sent me a letter saying I had PLR. I could have applied for a British passport myself, but didn't (not anticipating Brexit). I have since lost the letter.

The Visas & Immigration Team told me I need to make a Subject Access Request to get my information from their files. But having submitted a SAR, they have since told me (a) they have nothing on file for me AND (b) they will not give me another letter, or divulge the contents of my son's file to show me the PLR doc - because they won't show 'for security reasons' they never release PLR docs. These are not 'security reasons' particular to me (upstanding EU citizen thanks).

At the end of my tether. Any suggestions gratefully received.

Should have better explained - i need the PLR letter now in order to apply for a passport. Suddenly it's very important. I don't see why i should have to apply for PLR again now. I already got it, but cannot prove it.

@calamitygene this board sometimes has some useful leads www.immigrationboards.com . But from my experience with UKVI, I would suggest going to a specialist solicitor. The rules are obscure and ever changing and there are also discretionary guidelines. It just is beyond a non specialist to navigate.

Thanks fatdogs. I think I do need a solicitor....uurgh. Any recommendations?

There's one we use at the university where I work. Let me get the details. They were pretty good in sorting my colleagues visa issue.

That would be fantastic, thanks so much fat dogs. I feel really stuck.

globalimmigrationsolutions.co.uk/portfolio/asha-thomas

Here we go. I have no personal experience with her as I used a different solicitor but I won't recommend mine as I did not have the best service from them in terms of contact and communication.
Our university used this lawyer for my colleague and she successfully obtained her visa despite several complicated issues. So she is very satisfied with them.

Thanks very much - I appreciate that so much!! I will get in touch.

The state can be so bad at keeping documents - one reason I have paper records going back 30 years! It is an issue fo many people. One man in his divorce case definitely remembered getting a final consent order (no fugure claims by wife against him - clean break order) but the court had no records going back that far (she sued him after 20 years after divorce!) he had lost the clean break order and his solicitors did not keep records for 20 years and the courts had no record that far back.

Could your son make a data protection act request for information on his own file (or your husband) and that might accidentally then disclose the PLR letter that was sent to you? Would someone else have had it at the same time - eg head office home office perhaps have copies and then they send it to a local passport office or they might have written to your employer at the time and their HR department might have copies of the correspondence? As it was only 7 years ago may be you have a copy on a back up on a hard drive or something without realising it (unlikely).

Hi Lucysky - yes i know you're right - it's very annoying actually we are sure we kept copies of everything (entire application and correspondence) but since a house move, we just cannot locate the boxes where the docs should be. They have simply vanished.

I did do exactly what you suggested, but they say they won't show me anything relating to me which is on my son's file. I think a lawyer is the best solution at this point. It is vexing. I'm half minded to leave the country in protest! But life is here...

Luchi not completely true. Commonwealth citizens can have right to abode based on criteria Not available to the rest of the world as I am sure fat knows
www.gov.uk/right-of-abode/commonwealth-citizens

They have additional rights.

Thanks for extending your empathy to the 1.2 million UK citizens in the UK on top of the 3m in UK. You really don't see the issue do you. If I'm honest I don't understand why you got to vote on the rights of the EU immigrants who's lives are affected. Your addition rights impacted people who could not vote

You are giving people advice on their immigration procedures. I hope you extend the courtesy to the white EU citizens you have issue with

@haveyoueverbeenconned commonwealth residency rights of abode apply only to a very limited set of people. A tiny group really. You are reaching so very very far. I can tell you those rights of abode do not apply to me and certainly did not apply to my Jamaican partner who is now a UK citizen in his own right under another immigration category before he met me. They do not apply to my British friend's Thai wife even though her husband and children have a British passport. And they have been married for 13 years just becuase my friend has made the mistake of residing abroad. I know they didn't help my American colleague say work when she messed up her visa on a technicality even though her husband is white British and her child is British.
We got the right to vote becuase of the commonwealth and the empire and the exploitation of our countries and peoples and their Labour and our countrire resources throughout the centuries. The selling of the idea that this was the mother country and pulling the rug out from under our feet when they had enough of us and found new friends.
You don't understand why we got to vote? Well maybe some remnant of history gave us that advantage. And if you didn't like that you could have campaigned for change. But you didn't and so here we are. Bet you didn't know we had that voting right. Might have been worth reading up on it.
I have no issue with white EU citizens. I thi k you have a complete hang up about it.
I see you have no logical arguments except to be angry about us having voting rights instead of saying wouldn't things be better if we allowed voting right side EU citizens legally resident here.
Same argument you send against me. Instead of being biter and questioning why common wealth citizens had rights to vote , wouldn't it be better to campaign for ALL residents to vote. Don't like it so much when some privilege is on the other foot do you?

Btw I don't know if calamitygene is white or not. I don't care really. She needed advice,I could provide some, so I do it.

I have not extended empathy. You ASKED me what I think would happen to the rights of UK citizens. I replied and told you what I think would happen.