EU citizens and UK Settled Status

[StillGotCake]

I am fast losing the little confidence I have left in Teresa May.

The proposed arrangements for EU citizens post-Brexit are a dog's dinner.

In particular, EU citizens who have previously acquired a permanent residency card (at significant cost and in the face of excessive bureaucracy) are now told that they shouldn't have bothered. It's worthless. They will need to reapply for "Settled Status".

For the love of God, why?? Is TM determined to make the UK the most disliked nation on the planet? If EU citizens have already applied successfully for a PERMANENT residency card surely that can be simply transferred over to settled status without further bureaucracy (and fees).

I have been generally supportive of the U.K. govt in trying to navigate a pathway through Brexit, but my patience is wearing thin. They look incompetent and we are becoming a deeply unloved laughing stock.

That's one way of looking at it. There are other ways

I would like to wait to see what the EU actually agrees

@haveyoueverbeenconned I find your dismissal of the poor treatment meted out to non EU citizens simply becuase it has not happened on the scale of 3 million at a single go bordering on racism. I find it really unpleasant that you dismiss their concerns and ordeals. Please stop.

Fat you have repeatedly mentioned the skin colour of EU citizens. Have said someone is 'sitting pretty with their passport

Re read your posts. Also being non white does not mean you can not be a racist.

It's not as though you were promised something by a fickle government who has simply reneged without reason @everthinkyouvebeenconned . It is, in essence, an unanticipated third party outside government or EU control who has thrown the cards up in the air.

At least the 3 million have the comfort of retaining full U.K. rights and EU rights too. Which is more than most British citizens are salvaging from this mess.

Swings and roundabouts.

Chances are we will probably remain in the so how market and everything including freedom of movement will continue as before. EU citizens will be fine as always

Fat nice try. But I have not dismissed anything.

OK an example. If I wanted to move to the US I would expect a very stringent immigration procedure. Similar to the UK. I have non EU relatives they know it is almost impossible for them to move to the UK.

Eyes wide open.

Changes to the situation of the EU citizens is not a comparison.

Serf But we don't know yet. The EU haven't played their arm

I think we can make some broad predictions. There are parameters the parties aren't likely to step beyond.

Sitting pretty is how she puts it herself, you daft fucking bint! She's my colleague, my friend and I play with her children and if you think I am borderline racist, you should hear what she has to say about her fellow country men and mass migration to UK. Is she racist too? Against her own white polish counterparts? I hate it hn people throw the word racist around.
Yes I mention skin colour as it Is BLINDINGLY obvious what kinds of people are primarily prejudiced by the very harsh NON RU immigration rules. To refuse to see that is to me VERY racist. Pointing it out is NOT racist. It is settingbthe obvious to anyone with functioning eyes!

The EU haven't played their arm

The EU's position hasn't changed, they want all current rights preserved in perpetuity, for Brits abroad and EU citizens here. For some reason the UK government wants you to think that we are waiting for the EU to match this amazing offer . But the offer is already there - no reduction in rights.

This is the EU position:

ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/citizens-rights-essential-principles-draft-position-paper_en.pdf

But, fatdogs, why are you not asking for better treatment of non-EU people, instead of wanting EU people to have it just as bad?

@madrettanquilitas I am happy for it to go either way. Either NON EU to be treated the same as EU after Brexit complete or for EU to be treated like all other immigrants. So, Yes, either treat the Non EU better (fat chance in hell of that happening) or bring the EU down to equality with non EU.
In reality, I thi k the EU citizens will be kept with all existing rights so this is all just a storm in a cup. But Yes, the uncertainty they are facing now is not good and very stressful.

Precisely this 'nobody should have it better than I do' attitude is what makes me want to puke.

And this "I don't care if other people suffer and are discriminated against as long as I and people like me are treated right" attitude makes me want to puke too.

Except I never said I don't care if other people suffer and are discriminated against and you have no idea how I and people like me have been treated.

What is different between EU and non-EU immigrants is that when I moved here, it was in effect the same country in terms of work and pensions, benefits, student fees. One country is now splitting off, but that was completely unforseeable a decade and more ago.

My Canadian colleague came knowing what the immigration rules are, doesn't like them but did a cost-benefit analysis and thought it worth while.

Yes, we can just f* off as some suggest but just think what that means - two jobs to be found in same location with no connections, losing all your friends, kids losing friends and going into another school system just at the wrong time in their school lives, selling house, accessing long term investments you made because you thought you'd be drawing your pension here etc. It's not as easy as just upping sticks and leaving, although several families with people in transferable jobs have done exactly that.

@yayne but NO ONE has said that EU citizens currently resident in the country prior to the Brexit cut off date has to fuck off. They are completely welcome to stay and continue their jobs, friends etc. All they need to do is complete an administrative process to validate their settled status. So the real debate is whether they should have to complete the administrative process and what that will entail in terms of cost and complications. And yes the process should not be deliberately complicated or prohibitively expensive. But the anger seems to be directed towards having to go through an administrative process AT ALL. To me i think that is sheer entitlement. All right to be entitled to your rights as EU citizens when UK was a part of EU but it no longer is or no longer will be, so those rights don't exist or won't for much longer. What's so hard to understand about That?
I can empathise more if there was threat to remove pre brexit resident EU citizens but that is not the case at this moment.
All the moaning and iowing over have to apply for a residency card and scaremongering that it will be used to harass them a la the star of David of the Nazi era is pure conjecture and frankly hysteria.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Fill the forms like the rest of us. And also do you think rules were NOT changed while we were here??? Of course they were. Repeatedly. Arbitrarily. People had kids in school, jobs, houses and suddenly found they couldn't renew their visas. This happens ALL THE TIME. No one was signing petitions and hand wringing then.

In fact there is MUCH greater sympathy for the EU migrants. You guys actually have politicians speaking out for you, demanding you be given rights. No one ever did that when non EU residents got screwed over.

About a decade ago they changed the rules for doctors. Overnight. Doctors from India could come in on a 'permit free visa' and then they couldn't. My sister was on the verge of making consultant. Husband was already a consultant. Daughter was 8. In primary school. They own a house. They are both high earners. But my sister didn't qualify under the 10 year rule as it was then. Why? She has gone home for my niece's birth and that had gone wrong. Niece was in hospital for 3 months and the Home Office said nope sorry you broke your continuous stay and wouldn't accept extenuating circumstances. Plenty of lawyers and a lot of money later they got their residency and then citizenship. All because of an arbitrary rule change that they could not have foreseen? Sounds familiar??

I think what I am irritated about is the...the rules suddenly changed for us bit. They have been changing (without a democratic referendum mind you) for a WHILE. And EU migrants have got a much better deal in the whimsy that is the HO because there is political will to support them.

Rules do change. At the moment I have no idea if as a VAT payable sole trader I have to use complex expensive new software products for y accounts from April. The election means we are likely to have a new finance bill this month which will hopefully make it clear. Nor can we set the cost of that software against our tax in full. All the time we UK citzens are subject to rule changes, new forms (look at the move to universal credit). When I had 5 children I got child benefit. Now I don't get child benefit as a single mother as the rules changed. When I took out my pension I could take it at age 50 and the state changed the rules to 55. When I started work my retirement age was 60 and now its 67 for state pension.

In other words the state changes things all the time not just for foreign citizens.

Loving it that immigrants turn on other immigrants because they have more democratically created rights

Classy ladies. Really classy

two wrongs don't make a right though - I line manage non - EU folk and am very familiar with such idiotic decisions.

What I can't work out is why instead of trying to get decent decisions for everyone - and yes, benefits for 5 children and double benefits if you're a sole parent as in other countries, people want things to be just as bad for EU as non-EU citizens.

Will EU passport holder with UK Indefinite Leave to Remain have to apply for "settled" status?

Do you mean PR?

@everthinkyouhavebeenconned so the referendum and the outcome is not a democratic decision then? One may argue that a referendum where every vote counts is the purest form of democracy. And this is the result of it. Fwiw, i voted to remain as my industry (academia) would be so much the poorer without EU ties and collaboration. But there is no denying that immigration was a push factor (rightly or wrongly) for a lot of people who voted leave many of them non EU immigrants. And yes many of them were fed up of the preferential treatment. Can you blame them? As I said before, NO ONE is suggesting mass deportation of already settled EU immigrants. And if future immigration from EU is subject to controls, then at least there is a level playing field between all immigrants who can meet the requirements.