Josie Long - we are more at risk from right wing extremists than Islamic extremists

[Goodluckjonathan76]

A friend just posted a link to Josie's rant on her Facebook page. I honestly felt sick watching it. For a start, in terms of numbers of deaths, we are looking at 2 deaths (Jo Cox and man at Finsbury Park mosque) (please correct me if I am wrong) compared to multiple deaths in Manchester and London Bridge, not to mention the attacks in Paris, Nice and Brussels. Firstly, how is this the time to be comparing which is worse, and secondly, if we must compare then Islamic extremists pose a far greater risk in terms of loss of life. Am I missing something? Or has the world gone mad.

Never heard of Josie Long but after watching the Paul Joseph Watson youtube video it appears she is as thick as shit. Someone please save us from left wing z listers who think they have more than one brain cell.

WiseDad couldn't agree more with your 07:09:07 post.

I watched the JL video in stunned silence, as I did this. Religion is the root of so much bloodshed in the world.

I'd like them to be open to reform, to consider whether criticism of Islam is justified before shouting it down as racism or islamaphobia, to tackle Islam's attitude to homosexuality and women's rights and, most of all, to accept that their religion has imperfections and incompatibilities with the modern world instead of automatically closing down debate. All these things should be being driven by the scholars and imams and in some cases they are but not enough or quickly enough when the disparities are causing such division in our society. How can we have equality for all when one section of society cannot be criticised or questioned?

I think criticising Islam and the scriptures is fine and to be encouraged. Mohammed indicated education and asking questions is a duty and a practice of following God.
If only that can be done with intelligence and application of ability, rather than reactionary knee-jerking from a place of ignorance.

This is ridiculous. OP have you been reading/ listening to the press I have. The terror word was not quickly applied to the Finsbury Park incident at all. Whereas they were very quick to apply it to all three of the incidents in the last year.
The anti-BME narrative is everywhere in media, I still can't forget (this is years old) a scientist saying that sub Saharan Africans had the lowest IQ ever and nothing would ever change that, they aren't like us apparently.

JL is right in that right wing prejudice is main stream and really divisive.

My loved one is a Muslim woman. ON a train recently a white middle-aged woman told her she was uncomfortable sitting near her. Loved one being she tried to reason with her but to no avail. So loved one got up and moved seat.

If that white middle-aged woman felt the right to say that, I'd fear what younger white males are capable of and will be happy to include violence as part of a response.

Farage and Hopkins fuel that sort of behaviour and make it main stream.

Finsbury park was termed terrorism very quickly by the police and thence the media!

it is an interesting question as to how Islamist terrorists and white, Christian terrorists are 'radicalised' and what that actually means.

eg 'radical' means 'back to the root' and in Islam the root of the Quran specifically makes suicide and murder 'haram' i.e forbidden. So blowing oneself up and killing others in the process is very un-Islamic and NOT radical.

There is also a load of cock and bull being posted about what is actually written in the Quran and the hadiths. It's almost as if posters haven't actually read the items themselves and have relied on scaremongering and assumptions being made. "MN posters in discussing detail they know nothing of Shock!"

Instead of trying to imply there is "a load of cock and bull" all over the thread when only one pp has mentioned specific parts of the Quran, wouldn't it be better to say what you disagree with that the one poster said?

By the way "MN posters" is plural. Presumably you meant "MN poster".

And I don't think anyone is claiming great knowledge. Ffs, there are many, many ways I would rather spend my time than discussing and learning about Islam. Unfortunately we don't seem to have much choice these days do we, as there are so many issues with Islam which affect our lives? I wish it wasn't like this but it is.

If that white middle-aged woman felt the right to say that, I'd fear what younger white males are capable of - don't you see the hypocrisy of this?!?!

So what would you like Muslims to stop doing?

Bertrand Can I ask you whether there are aspects of Islam, in this country and elsewhere, which you would like to see changed or reformed?

Pannnn

How many very young, vulnerable, white girls have been raped and abused by Muslim men in this country?

If that white middle-aged woman felt the right to say that, I'd fear what younger white males are capable of

Just gonna change that to...

If that Asian middle-aged man felt the right to say that, I'd fear what young asian males are capable of

Is the hypocrisy clear to you yet Pann?

Well not really Cross - yes only Dad was specific in his 'evidence' irrc and so of course you are right there. But overall there is a very strong wiff of Islamophobia going on and the OP has set the tone for it. And much of that is based in ignorance and 'othering' of a group of people at the first opportunity.

If that white middle-aged woman felt the right to say that, I'd fear what younger white males are capable of and will be happy to include violence as part of a response

It's amazing what people can get away with saying about white men, isn't it? So you don't want to see sterotyping prejudice against your loved one, but you think it's fine to apply stereotyping prejudice to other people Super.

But overall there is a very strong wiff of Islamophobia going on - oh Christ on a bike!!!! Here we go Bertrand - my point proven precisely. Thanks Pann 👏 👏

Wow! Just read the posts in last couple of minutes. Ignorance and Islamophobia really is alive and beating on this thread.
Have much better things to do than type endlessly.

Well not really Cross - yes only Dad was specific in his 'evidence' irrc and so of course you are right there. But overall there is a very strong wiff of Islamophobia going on and the OP has set the tone for it. And much of that is based in ignorance and 'othering' of a group of people at the first opportunity.

Again, if you have a problem with any posts, challenge them and argue against them. Making generalised accusations of "Islamophobia" against the whole thread is not constructive.

Pann - can you be specific?? What EXACTLY is Islamophobic about any comments?
And can you defend your comments on "younger white men"? If we replaced it with "Asian men" I guess you'd suggest that was Islamophobic?

Ignorance and Islamophobia

No. Fact.

Muslim men raped and abused young white vulnerable girls.

I don't accept the word "Islamophobia". Islam is an ideology, like communism or nazism or Christianity or any other religion. Political Islam or Islamism is as much a political ideology as a religion.

We have the right to criticise and dislike ideologies. Ideologies do not have rights and should not be protected from critism.

People have rights and should be protected. So discrimination and bigotry against Muslims is not acceptable. Discrimination against Muslims is anti Muslim bigotry or Muslimophobia, not Islamophobia.

Pann does nothing to help his/her cause by merely finger pointing and calling "islamophobe". It's this insane pantomime that the whole thread is discussing.
Feel free to come in with some valid debate at any time Pann... I've a feeling we'll be waiting a while.

The sooner we rid the planet of all religions the better as they tend to be sexist to the core and pretty discriminatory of women and that day will come. However I am happy to live in a country where people can believe whatever they like. The British are like that - we live and let live as long as people don't interfere with how we lead our lives and fit in with the predominant culture.

That worked out so well in the communist Eastern Bloc, Lucy. No one was oppressed persecuted or murdered for their beliefs at all (sarcasm, btw)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism

Discrimination against Muslims is anti Muslim bigotry or Muslimophobia, not Islamophobia.

Exactly, questioning ideology does not equate to discrimination against people in any other context, it's only ever when people try to discuss Islam. I think using words like Islamophobia actively feeds the very 'othering' the so-called Islamophobes are being accused of because people can see that questioning Islam's ideology gets an entirely unique reaction and people see that as unequal.