London Fire: Grenfell Tower thread five

[RhythmAndStealth]

RIP

Five victims officially named
At least 79 victims expected, possibly more
Many displaced and struggling

To all those affected and all those helping

Thread four
Thread three
Thread three contains links to threads one and two.

www.itv.com/news/2017-06-23/grenfell-tower-blaze-was-sparked-by-faulty-fridge-freezer/

Possibility of manslaughter charges being a result of the investigation are under consideration.

news.met.police.uk/news/update-six-fatalities-following-the-fire-in-north-kensington-246230?hootPostID=0fbad87cb60a6781d9d1cf0078121f45
UPDATE: Grenfell Tower fire investigation

And this is the latest update direct and unedited by media outlet from the Met Police themselves.

Lots in there about the possibility of numbers going higher and the difficulty of identifying them.

Who would the charges likely be filed against? Surely not the owner of the fridge in the flat where the fire started? I am assuming council/developers etc?

Also, sorry if this has been answered somewhere else in the threads (I have been reading but may have missed it), the BBC report there were 127 flats in Grenfell Tower, but that 151 households IN the tower were destroyed (I had to read again in case it was relating to households around the tower but definitely says in the tower), and some of the flat numbers are in the 150's - were there more than 127 flats then?

Charges wouldn't be agains the owner of the fridge, that was an accident/faulty appliance (actually it might be that the appliance was damaged by power surges in the building, these were reported by residents in the couple of years before the fire.

The problem wasn't a fridge catching fire (an accident), it was what happened after that, the unexpectedly rapid and devastating spread of the fire (not an accident, but a consequence of various bad, and maybe illegal decisions).

Criminal charges could be levelled at whoever was responsible for the manufacturing, approving, fitting, of the panels - how serious the charges are, would depend on what those people knew about the cladding, how they were fitted (i.e. If firebreaks between the wall and tiles were specified for fire safety, but not fitted, well somebody is responsible for that).

The problem wasn't a fridge catching fire (an accident), it was what happened after that, the unexpectedly rapid and devastating spread of the fire (not an accident, but a consequence of various bad, and maybe illegal decisions). This.

Minkowski when I watched Theresa May's statement she definitely said 151 households "in and around the tower".

With regards the flat numbers, my understanding was that some flats were removed (either merged to make larger flats or lost altogether with the installation of facilities) during the refurbishment but they may have kept the original numbering so as not to confuse residents and mess up the postal system.

Her glad to hear in the police update an speak for anyone who raised safety concerns prior to the fire to come forward. Also to anyone who was concerned but had not reported. Can't see how the tmo or rbkc will wriggle out of the part they played in the manslaughter of their residents.

Gah stupid phone.

Should say. Very glad to hear in the police update an appeal for....

I am not sure if anyone knows the answer (sorry I have been lurking, not really posting)

But if it is a whirpool fridge freezer, wouldn't whirpool be on the hook, having had a large amount of appliances with fire safety issues, that they have been aware of?

But if it is a whirpool fridge freezer, wouldn't whirpool be on the hook, having had a large amount of appliances with fire safety issues, that they have been aware of?

Apparently it was a Hotpoint. But, regardless, if the manufacturer was at fault, they're only liable for the immediate consequences, i.e. those that were foreseeable, so basically just the damage to the flat and any injuries/fatalities within the flat. Their liability wouldn't extend to the rest of the building because it wasn't their fault about duff cladding nor poor fire precautions in the rest of the building.

Thank you for answering my questions. Glad the charges will fall to the people who rightly deserve it (those that made the poor decisions re cladding/lack of fire safety).

Lord Trash that blog from @nearlylegal sums it up very very well. He doubts (like i do) that it will make any change to the shitty attitudes towards social housing coming from some quarters.

I follow him on twitter. Hes the one that told my MP what he actually voted for.

Erin M‏ @erinfutts 3h3 hours ago
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Tell me @SadiqKhan @theresa_may what do @NHBC actually do? Why cant we get evidence of fire risk assessment frm @AffinitySutton or 1/2
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Erin M‏ @erinfutts 3h3 hours ago
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Cant get hold of fire risk assessment for communal areas of rydon built home @AffinitySutton refusing to hand over @jonsnowC4
1 reply . 5 retweets 2 likes
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Erin M‏ @erinfutts 4h4 hours ago
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Why are @AffinitySutton refusing to hand over our current FRA for communal areas of Rydon built home @SkyNews @Bordeaux8 @guardian

I hope not mrs glow glow. It does sound like the legislation is inadequate but whats worrying me is that the way the tenants were dismissed belittled and threatened to keep quiet when they complained will be brushed under the carpet and the focus will only be on the legislation when the focus needs to be on both.

www.scotsman.com/news/grenfell-victims-given-bigger-homes-could-be-hit-by-bedroom-tax-1-4484689

The police statement is good - and I am glad to hear the investigation is being taken forward on that basis. If these materials fail safety tests, charges should be brought against those responsible.

I hope the residents do form a collective to take action against those found responsible and the law suit that follows ensures they receive payouts big enough that they at least no longer need to worry about housing costs. In the meantime the government surely would not make them pay?

I'm not quite sure what to think about the email I just received... is this a joke or should I report it to someone?!

Instead of council properties being owned and managed by private companies residents should be allowed to have co operatives to run and manage

This could change social housing in the UK

"Dont you get the work done for free though" More of the attitudes towards social housing tenants.

www.facebook.com/groups/390065764448481/

Albadross!!! How very weird! Must be a 'joke' but maybe you should forward to police. I'll google him when I get a chance!

Good grief Albadross honestly I'd ring the police non emergency and report it. That is not nice. Hope you are ok.

"Dont you get the work done for free though" More of the attitudes towards social housing tenants. for crying out loud! No. No. No we fucking well don't.

Albadross that sounds really really sinister. I second mrs glows advice to forward it on to police.

Grenfell residents are still being treated like chess pieces.

Pilgrim Tucker‏ @PilgrimTucker 10m10 minutes ago
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I have just witnessed grenfell residents being kicked out of hotel and separately dispersed to different hotels

I doubt the cladding manufacturer would be charged. The advertise the cladding as not being fire proof.

It would come down to whoever chose it