Otto Warmbier has died

[SouthWestmom]

So sad. Whatever happened to lose your child in this way is heartbreaking. As mine are heading towards adulthood and their own choices it's so upsetting to read.

How do you know what his reasons for going there were? Unless you knew him personally?

He was curious and he wanted to visit? What other reasons are there? Those are the reasons every tourist gives the regime their money.

Unless you're saying he actually was a spy? There is almost no chance that's true.

I'm actually surprised that NK released him to die with his family TBH

I read that when they realised he was dying they knew for him to die in custody would be disastrous so released him.

I think young people make choices that we may question later. I also think that if no tourist ever went, there would be less to know except that gained via intelligence.

I feel very sorry for his parents. It was a tragic end. He sounded like he had an amazing future ahead of him.
Though as for Otto - an idiot for wanting a holiday to NK, and even bigger idiot for trying to steal the sign. I have little sympathy for the sentence he received.

I don't believe for a moment he took the poster, for what it's worth. His confession was forced. The wording was so far fetched. A used car and entry into a secret college society or similar? Wtf? This is why I don't want May to abolish the human rights act.

What is wrong with this world that I'm actually reading people say they feel no sympathy? What? God forbid one of your children has a moment of recklessness ( or simple gets accused of one) and gets tortured and murdered for it. My blood is running cold.

Exactly, kitty.

According to this Washington Post article Otto suffered "extensive loss of brain tissue". I can't begin to imagine how he was treated to cause that. A separate WP article paints the travel company, and their tourists, in a very poor light. Whatever the truth, his imprisonment must have been beyond anything he or his family could have dreamt. May he rest in peace now, and his family find solace that he was with them at his passing.

I really don't know how any sentient adult can fail to feel sorry for this young man. So what if he went on an ethically questionable holiday? Nobody deserves to suffer what he did. It's really judgemental and cold to say you have a problem with him personally.

Plus...for all you know, he didn't take the poster,
Don't fall for whatever was said at the hour long "trial"

Going to North Korea and stealing the poster (if he actually did) - bloody stupid. But my God, he didn't deserve to die. I can't imagine what his poor parents are feeling.

It worries me how Trump will respond to this as North Korea isn't known for being reasonable. And of course they have nuclear weapons. What a horrible mess.

How would a person lose brain tissue?

I am totally confused by this whole thing

Wtf ??????

Brain tissue can be 'lost' if it dies, if the brain tissue dies, which can happen as a result of natural causes such as cardiac arrest or other catastrophic health problems.

What we don't know is whether in Otto's case, it happened because of illness or foulplay by NK, or any other reason (e.g. accident).

It's all very strange.

I'm shocked a bit at the lack of sympathy for him tbh. I doubt he did take the sign, and if he did I cannot imagine that any sane person could reasonably correlate the punishment.

Plus, detained as they left? Not at the time? On the basis of unclear cctv footage that doesn't show him or (anyone) other than as a grainy image.

I'm just touched by this particular lost life out of all the hundreds of sad stories. Some just resonate.

Completely agree with Noeuf

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/josh-rogin/wp/2017/06/15/otto-warmbiers-north-korea-roommate-speaks-out/

This is the room mate - not the piece I read but very similar.

It's sad that one day people won't remember. It's quiet and horrific to disappear for such a long time.

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/21/otto-warmbiers-family-declines-autopsy-as-trump-says-death-is-total-disgrace

I don't understand why they would decline an autopsy?

That article is very sad, Noeuf. It doesn't exactly sound like a frat jolly if there were only two single guys in the group and one was in their 40s.

I think that, in countries where there's no hardcore regime, we don't understand what it's like, how much people live under that shadow. At the university where I work a student moderator of an international students' Facebook page used to post happy national day posts for the various countries represented in the group. He made the mistake of doing one for Taiwan - the barrage of abuse and threats he got from Chinese students was awful, as China does not consider Taiwan a country, but part of China. He was being told by his student peers to take the post down or they'd go to the Embassy. You just wouldn't expect students with whom you get on, share classes and go for a drink to react like that but you don't realise the climate of control and culture of reporting on people that they live under. And that's China, which is bloody liberal compared to North Korea.

I'm in Scotland and when people make jokes about the SNP being like the Stasi or 'Yestapo' it pisses off the lecturers I work with who lived in former communist countries because we have absolutely no clue.

Agent that's frightening in a way, how fragile peace is. Where would loyalties and ingrown beliefs lie in a contest? So scary.

Southern I suspect the doctors have already told them all they need to know and they can guess the rest. I'm not sure an autopsy would do more in their eyes than further defile his body. Maybe they just want him laid to rest in peace and with no more trauma? Obviously I don't know I'm just guessing.

I had not heard of him until today.

I feel desperately sorry for him and his family and would wish to express my condolences at their loss

The nature of the whole sad story is so opaque from start to finish that I do not think we are ever likely to learn the whole truth.

There are some horrible posts on here
There are many countries with dodgy regime's and laws, not least the US, but you wouldn't claim a tourist were propping them up not deserve to die
My heart goes out to him and his family. What an awful time he must have had

My son was found dead in strange circumstances. There had to be a post mortem. I cannot find the words to express how distressing that was and how I still have nightmares about it almost a year later.
My heart breaks for Otto's parents.