Grenfell Tower fire- thread three

[RhythmAndStealth]

Seventeen tragic deaths confirmed so far, six victims provisionally identified.
Number of those who perished feared to rise into triple figures as search proceeds
Search for remaining victims expected to take weeks, sadly it’s considered unlikely that it will be possible to identify all the victims
Names of those still missing start to emerge
Nearly 80 victims being treated across six hospitals, with 15 still in critical care
Hundreds of people displaced and dispossessed, concerned about when and where they will be rehoused

Public inquiry ordered.
Criminal investigation launched.
Serious questions being asked about fire safety regulations, management of social housing, austerity and inequality.
Fire Brigade search of building expected to take weeks due to complexity of building, extent of fire damage and the necessity of undertaking a painstaking fingertip search.

“There must be arrests after this monstrous crime” David Lammy MP

‘Families rehoused last night been left clueless about where to spend next nights. No word from #kccouncil. Chaos.” Emily Maitlis, BBC

“We have to act as if it was our friends, our family in that block” Nick Hurd MP, Policing and Fire Minister

“Someone needs to be held accountable. These deaths could have been prevented.” Local resident to Sadiq Khan

Thread 2
Thread 1

I'm puzzled also re the 12 leaseholder properties in the tower. From the minutes it shows a decision was made that they would not be charged for their proportion of the building works. They were able to do this by referring to the work as refurbishment rather than repairs. Now with any mixed private/LA property I have dealt the private leaseholders would receive an invoice for their share of the work. Why not here? Who are the 12 leaseholders? Are they connected in some way to cktmo or the council?

I think sometimes you just assume (hope) that the council have got it under control, because it's the right thing to do. The humane thing to do.

And if BBC News or other sources don't report on it, you just assume it's all in hand. But I am reading tonnes of sources and seeing that it isn't happening, and I can't believe it took until now to pledge the 5million. That should have been pledged from the beginning.

Think I might have to step away from Twitter. When people start saying things like 'you've got the money, why are you still protesting' and how people will lose sympathy if there are riots.

Not inciting riots at all, but, no one has gone through that horror. Children being thrown out of buildings? No. You can't tell people not to be angry at that. Or that you will lose sympathy for them. Ever.

This is the worst non terrorist event in my lifetime, and not something I ever expected to see in 2017, especially as it was preventable.

mrsglowglow I doubt there's anything sinister behind it. They probably decided not to go through the Section 20 process and charge for just 12 homes out of 120+.

Our management company hasn't a bloody clue. We were all evacuated for almost a week not that long ago (due to a bungled piece if maintenance that almost burned the building down) and they did stuff all. Thank God for the fire brigade (who were hurt that alarms didn't go off). I had phone the brigade and to bang on doors to get people up and shoo them out. And argue with tits who didn't want to shift despite all the choking smoke.

They didn't contact us to make sure we had a bed or even to check if everyone was ok. They would have no clue how many people should be here, let alone who they are. I have told them so many times that this block will be levelled one of these days.

Surely there must be rent accounts, housing benefit accounts, details of home owners etc? And those details must be on computer at headquarters of that HA, so the police should be able to access those, have a idea who lived where?

KCTMO definitely have a fairly up-to-date resident list, even if only the main tenant of each flat: they had stock condition surveys done in the last couple of years.

You'd think so Carrie. Clearly in a block that size it would take a while but not days.

That is disgusting mavis.

gluteus, you are so right. If anyone is in doubt about whether to be support or admonish protesters, remember the messages of love from those trapped as they called their families. Imagine comforting your DBro or DSis as you both know they are about to die trapped in a burning building. That is why they want answers.

It is just becoming ridiculous now how badly this is being managed.

Every government official involved should have to go and resit GCSE geography to learn the ABCs of disaster management plans.

people that are in a care home are not competent or safe to be on their own. hence the reason for staff preparedness emergency drills etc.
in social housing each occupant is assumed to be competent.
I expect improved building regulations but wouldn't be surprised if more rules and regulations for tenants come about as well; no smoking, no subletting and a limit on maximum occupancy.

Ian Martin Columnist for The Times has tweeted this.

"Word of praise for the cops tonight in London. Policing demos. Stretched by terror threat. Now handling Socialist Worker middle class twats"

FFS!

I don't know what Jo Cox would think of me for saying this but I didn't even think The Last Leg would go ahead tonight. Plus there are people on there who are partly to blame for this as well as the Iraq war....! Not watching, winder what their audience figure will be like.

There has been a lot of discussion about fire and building regulations, much of it a bit too complicated for me. However I would presume the regulations were complied with. But if so, it was the very, very least they could have done. The very least. There was no thought they could provide more than the absolute minimum. The Guardian reports for £2 per metre square more the cladding could have been fire resistant. Didn't anyone say use the more expensive cladding ? Just in case. Didn't anyone say if there is a fire we must ensure the tenants have the best protection possible. Didn't anyone say it doesn't matter that these are HA properties everyone should have a place to live that conforms to the highest and not the lowest safety standards. Didn't anyone say we are the wealthiest of boroughs in the wealthiest of cities and we can and should spend the money to ensure everyone is as safe as they possibly can be? No. They said we can use the cheapest option, we won't spend money protecting tenants who should think themselves lucky to be given a dwelling in this rich part of London. They should be thankful they have a roof over their heads. They are the undeserving poor who can't expect more than the absolute minimum. We deserve our houses in London's richest borough and if we have to clad our houses we will of course pay the extra but not for them.

My Dad had a fire in their house when he was 15, in the late 1940s. He always said it was the most terrifying thing he had experienced. Waking up to smoke and flames and trying to get out, and that was in an 3 bed semi with 4 people, not being on the 20th floor of a tower block. They were council tenants, they were rehoused locally until the house was repaired. When they moved back my Grandmother could no longer live there due to the trauma of the fire. They were rehoused again by the council. They were treated with kindness and empathy by the council in the 1940s. The people of Grenfell have been treated appallingly.

It makes me so angry.

Sorry if this seems dramatic, but I think it is important.

IMPROVED BUILDING REGULATIONS DO NOTHING FOR THOSE CURRENTLY LIVING IN THESE TOWER BLOCK

BLOCKS

There's nothing like a grammatical error to limit you point! Fuck.

MrsGlowGlow from what I read it's because they could't not classify the works as repairs and so couldn't make them compulsory. They were, ironically, improvements.

As PP says, 12 of them in total in the building and they would have been on shaky ground to even start trying to force them. Not worth the legal fees.

I work in social housing. I like to think we treat our tenants with care and respect. I'd be devastated if anyone thought we didn't.

Heman I think most front line housing workers do that, it is the people higher up that are the problem.

Out2pasture It will be similar to what happens with the gas safety checks. They were suppossed to be for tenants safety but are quite often used to bully and control tenants (see my posts about 8 no shows in a row ) and amongst the many things Liberty Gas has done to tenants they told a council that they couldnt gain entry to a home (a blatant lie they didnt turn up. On Saturday 19 March last year that tenant awoke to them breaking in. Because the council automatically believed LG and not the tenant. They beat a hasty retreat when she showed them the e mail trail but she still had to have LG back to do the work required.

LG used to do our checks They dont any more thank fuck. When they dont turn up (a common occurance) they send an automatic text to the tenant saying that THEY COULDNT GAIN ACCESS.

When ive posted about these issues before ive had ppl tell me not to be paranoid.

But lies like this can get a tenant evicted. If more legislation is brought in there need to be assurances that it wont subjugate tenants further.

Mavis that is gob smackingly appalling.

Emily Maitlis just said she has interviewed TM for newsnight. The camera panned out to cut away but didn't cut, and I caught her (and I rewound three times to make triple sure I'm accurate here!) roll her eyes as she walked off

What can they possibly hope to gain by treating people so badly Helena? I just don't get it at all .

You are probably right LeMes. Unfortunately.

"Why wasn’t [the support] there in place? Any other tragedy, flooding, you would have the army there, you would have had organisers. I was there on the ground. I saw the chaos for myself. There was no-one in charge and there was no-one willing to take responsibility."

Emily Maitlis to Theresa May

I saw the Emily maitlis/ Theresa May interview.

I felt she really socked it to her.

She was brilliant and tm fudged her way through it.

Heman, I used to work in housing. At that time, probably same as now, you get to know the tenants, their ups and downs, you laugh and joke with them. They are real people to you. Not some abstract numbers. The front line housing workers in Kensington now must be devastated, being blamed for something that is probably not their fault and knowing people who have died. They probably feel very guilty despite being too low down to have had any influences on decision making that may have contributed to this.