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News

Grenfell Tower tragedy continued

999 replies

RhythmAndStealth · 14/06/2017 23:17

Twelve people confirmed dead with that number expected to rise significantly.

Many others injured and distressed. People have lost relatives, friends and their homes.

250 firefighters in attendance, risking their lives in an unprecented fire and it's aftermath. Other emergency services and NHS staff working hard to help survivors.

Many questions to be answered.

Flowers to all those affected and everyone helping.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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manechanger · 15/06/2017 19:32

Sorry.

Muddywellies10 · 15/06/2017 19:34

I think there has to be serious consideration given to requiring the retrospective fitting of sprinkler systems in all flats of over a certain number of floors. The Welsh Government requires sprinklers in all new build residential properties (and new conversions), but even they don't have any requirements for older properties.

WellThisIsShit · 15/06/2017 19:35

And I think that will be my first ever post deletion.

Rewritten so the message remains:

Housing is out of reach to those who fucking WORK too.

I'll bet most of the people did work, possibly 2 or 3 jobs, possibly as key workers in the NHS and other essential jobs. Others in zero hours contracts in supermarkets and nurseries, that lock people into working ever so hard just to stand still. And people who are forced into having to rely on the state to help house them.

Job's that prop up the economy and jobs that in nearly ever other European country allow people to fund their own housing... and to be able to move house if they are treated like a piece of shit and the accommodation was dangerously unsafe.

Some people need to check their privilege and have some actual compassion. And sense.

It's not all benefit fraud and the unemployable not working hard enough to get themselves out of this mess.

People in receipt of benefits aren't some kind of wastrel underclass who need persecuting.

This is all so wrong.

Please, don't make it into this.

There but for the grace of God, for almost all of us.

The people in those flats are just as valuable as all, as any, of us. They are not 'just like us', they ARE us.

(Whatever you choose to pretend to yourself)

WallisofWindsor · 15/06/2017 19:38

I think the death toll is likely to be more than 100 or even close to 200. Those poor souls.The little children. What can one say?!

woman12345 · 15/06/2017 19:39

Hundreds of the roughly 500 residents in the block remain unaccounted for including whole families.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/15/london-fire-latest-death-toll-set-rise-amid-grim-search-grenfell/

WallisofWindsor · 15/06/2017 19:40

Oh no 500? My God.

Breezy1985 · 15/06/2017 19:40

Thierry I'm so very sorry Flowers

maggiethemagpie · 15/06/2017 19:40

So someone somewhere has basically decided: Let's wrap a high rise flat in material made of firelighters, not install any sprinklers, not install any fire alarms or external fire escape and if there is a fire, tell residents not to leave their flats.

What could possibly go wrong????

Goingtobeawesome · 15/06/2017 19:41

A six month old baby is missing. Devastating, the whole thing.

DogStrummer · 15/06/2017 19:45

I think there has to be serious consideration given to requiring the retrospective fitting of sprinkler systems in all flats of over a certain number of floors.

I hear a lot about how hard sprinklers are to retrofit - a large storage tank is required, so the building might not be structurally able to take it. Plus pipes, false alarms, etc.

Apparently there's a new type of fire extinguisher/sprinkler system now called "Water Mist".

aspect-fire-suppression.co.uk/index.php?page=Content&con_id=6&gclid=CLTeoarAwNQCFRMTGwodk0wJpw
www.safelincs.co.uk/e-series-water-mist-fire-extinguishers/?fga=true&gclid=COCuhMTAwNQCFYY-GwodetkJuQ

Sounds like water mist systems are safe for electrical fires, require much less water reserve, and cause much less damage after being used. Drawback? They seem quite costly.

But, it seems there is an option for older flats now.

Saucery · 15/06/2017 19:47

They have died for the sake of something cheap that looks nice and pays lip service to 'insulation'. It's fucking horrendous.

Rinoachicken · 15/06/2017 19:47

According to the CBA website, there are certain minimum standards for rental housing that landlords have to abide by.

They vary depending if t is a private landlord, Local authority landlord or HA, but it clearly says that ALL landlords MUST supply a fire blanket and smoke alarms.

I live in a council house, rented directly from the council. They can and fitted wired in smoke alarms but I have no fire blanket. Will be calling them tomorrow I think!

Out2pasture · 15/06/2017 19:47

Who permitted the units to become so overcrowded?

Deathraystare · 15/06/2017 19:48

I thank (whoever) that our Housing Authority flats are shit hot on fire etc. We have working smoke alrams in every room, fire doors, weekly fire alarm tests etc.

Despite the chaos it looked like on the roads the emergency services did really well and also thje bus drivers are to be congratulated (but I bet they got a lot of shit). Anyway, it did not really harm me to walk.

My sincere condolences to anyone missing friends and family.

manechanger · 15/06/2017 19:48

to be fair, the not leaving your flat advice makes sense as it has worked in other cases and so is proper advice. From what i've heard so far the problem is with wrapping it in cladding that has a void behind it to act like a chimney.

On the other hand, if the flats are fireproof for one hour (which they clearly weren't at grenfell). Why stay in your flat if it is impossible to rescue you?

Maybe what is needed is less simplified fire advice? as well obviously as companies who have the best interests of residents in mind or, at least, thorough regulation. Many councils have been cut so much that they now outsource their building regs sign offs.

Rinoachicken · 15/06/2017 19:49

Sorry, posted too soon...

I checked this because of all the posters saying their landlord refused to fit smoke alarms etc. They are ALL legally required to do so, regardless of what type of landlord they are.

HelenaDove · 15/06/2017 19:49

500 Christ.

Elipsical · 15/06/2017 19:49

Just wish they'd used this instead. So sad to think it's simply come down to the cost, the foam insulation is cheaper.

But what the cost of lives. It's truly appalling.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=T2QUTOoAzjU

Babyturnip · 15/06/2017 19:50

I just feel so incredibly sad/angry/horrified just so many emotions. All those poor people

Rinoachicken · 15/06/2017 19:51

Also, I posted this on the other thread but want to raise it again here - the cladding company released a statement saying it met all building regs and fire regs, but hours later revised it to say met building regs (only). I think this is significant.

Spudlet · 15/06/2017 19:54

I keep having to stop reading and watching the news. A five year old missing, who lost hold of an adult's hand in the smoke. Dear god. Dear god.

If any MPs, or Parliamentary researchers read this, I have this to say to you. Next time you vote on fire safety, or building regs, or emergency service cuts, you do it with the image of that tower burning in your minds. You see those people hammering on the windows and screaming for a rescue that couldn't come. You hear the voice of a mother screaming, 'I need to get out. I need to save my baby'. You feel the utter desperation of a parent who has to throw their child from a tenth storey window.

Don't you ever, ever forget this. Don't you dare.

manechanger · 15/06/2017 19:54

rinoachicken, I've been told fireservice don't recommend fire blankets as most people don't know how to use them. IE if there's a kitchen fire and you put it over it but take it off too early it flares up because of the oxygen, usually resulting in burns. If you get one, get trained how to use it best. I guess it's best for putting out fires on people...

HelenaDove · 15/06/2017 19:54

Thats interesting Rhino. On advice of their lawyer i assume.

EmilyBiscuit · 15/06/2017 19:54

Watermist has been around for a while. It hasn't been so extensively tested as sprinklers though.

As I said earlier, it is totally possible to retrofit sprinklers. Some councils do it - there was a guy on the news earlier who said Brighton council had committed to doing this for all its tower blocks over a 25 year period even before this tragedy. The main problem is that it is expensive. Some things are worth the cost.

Fire regs are included in building regs. Building regulations are split in to different sections - part B deals with fire safety.

Rinoachicken · 15/06/2017 19:54

Thanks mane. I actually do know how to use one (trained at work and my dad is a fireman!) but that is a fair point