Grenfell Tower tragedy continued

[RhythmAndStealth]

Twelve people confirmed dead with that number expected to rise significantly.

Many others injured and distressed. People have lost relatives, friends and their homes.

250 firefighters in attendance, risking their lives in an unprecented fire and it's aftermath. Other emergency services and NHS staff working hard to help survivors.

Many questions to be answered.

to all those affected and everyone helping.

I can't see how a sprinkler system can be installed..... you need a water source. We have 2 huge water tanks to feed our sprinkler system at work

It's a bloody good system but it's thoroughly checked weekly by an outside company. It's not cheap.

Well that fire hazard of cladding wasn't cheap either. But aesthetics were deemed a priority over safety.

FFS why has Teresa May not visited the victims??

She's visiting TODAY

[https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/15/cladding-in-2014-melbourne-high-rise-blaze-also-used-in-grenfell-tower]

Shit.

Australia’s national science agency, the CSIRO, conducted tests on the cladding and found it was combustible and did not meet building codes.

"100 dead"

And not just dead.

Died in the most horrific, disastrous way possible as well as witnessing loved ones die in the fire.

It's the stuff of a horror movie.

Why? Human failure, greed, neglect by the council?

RIP beautiful people.

Coral last night the council said they'd found hotel rooms for 40 people if I'm not wrong. If BA can manage multiples of that in much less time then surely it's not unreasonable to expect the council to be better organised.

mumisrunning ok, so it's not cheap to run a sprinkler system? And?

I'm sorry, do people really still believe that there is no money in our country to pay for these things?

Wasn't this a privately run building? Can't they take the money out of their profits?

I'm so mad that people are defending this kind of absolute bullshit.

Wasn't this a privately run building? Can't they take the money out of their profits?

Privately run? You mean the ALMO?

"I'm so mad that people are defending this kind of absolute bullshit."

It fits with the artificial austerity narrative.

Sorry people, no money for the general public just for a select few, the general population have to make do and accept that their health, safety and wellbeing does not matter to our country.

Retrofitting a sprinkler system could also damage the compartmentation and would be very expensive. Not a bill the majority landlords / HA will pay unless they are forced to do so by legislation.

The idea they wouldn't have helped isn't necessarily true though. The purpose of most sprinkler systems is to control the size of a fire, which could (and this is speculation) have prevented to outside of the building catching fire in the first place.

No point wasting money on an expensive system that wouldn't work if the money can be better placed on

Effective fire doors
Fire extinguishers
Smoke alarms
Better evac procedures

I don't know how all sprinkler systems work, but ours needs a secondary water source in the form of 2 huge water tanks to supply one smallish warehouse.

How would a sprinkler system work in a high rise block??

DH is a mental health nurse in Kensington & Chelsea. There are a number of patients/ex patients and several Trust staff in that block who staff are trying to track down. Lots of staff have been to donate.
I just can't bear thinking about it.I do hope people take away from this that London does have real communities, just like everywhere else. There was an amazing response from the local mosque.

#If BA can manage multiples of that in much less time then surely it's not unreasonable to expect the council to be better organised.*

I dunno. BA have to find hotel rooms for one night for like 200 people quite regularly.

The council needs to find many many more (did someone say 1000?) on a longer term basis. Also why would the council be better at it that the airlines? The airlines do it all the time! Councils hardly ever have to do it!

I feel so sorry for the victims. Poor divils probably won't be able to shower or brush their teeth unless they get a room somewhere. As if their plight wasn't bad enough.

The council could afford it. Look at which council it is.

I think having ALMOs and TMOs and outsourced maintainence contracts and so on does help the council evade its responsibility by creating smoke and mirrors around the chain of accountability and shifting financial responsibility around.

Meanwhile the contract tendering process adds to the "race to the bottom", "how cheap can we do it?" atmosphere. Efficiencies by contracting out. Typical Thatcherite "innovation".

In the end nobody has ownership of the housing service. Nobody takes pride in it and you end up with a "not my department guv" culture.

People are evacuated from nearby buildings - it is well over 1000 (I was quoted 3000) people that need hotel rooms.

mumisrunning I am not really talking about a sprinkler system specifically, obviously. I am talking about whatever measures would have been appropriate to make this building safe. If it is fire doors, it's fire doors. If it's a sprinkler system, it's a sprinkler system. Obviously, I don't know the ins and outs of how this house was built, so I can't directly comment on what should have been in place.

I mean that it should have been safe and it wasn't. The cost shouldn't really matter when it comes to the safety of the people inside.

They can't search the edges of the building as it's unsafe. How are the poor souls there going to be identified? This is just horrific.

Quick call to an airline for some advice maybe?

"Efficiencies", not efficiencies,

There had been a scandal in Azerbaijan regarding tower block fires blamed on low quality cladding materials. (sorry for the DM link)

Allegedly, there are different types of plastic cladding, the fire resistant one being the most expensive and a contractor billed for the fire-resistant one but installed a cheaper one.

That Azerbijan think is eerily similar to the photographs we are seeing in our news.

May visiting today. I've just heard a suggestion it's a 'private' visit.

Is that for the benefit of May or locals?

A friends colleague has returned from working there and there were 3 tower block fires while he was there.

RedToothBrush Probably sensitive for the locals, and security-wise for May.

I suspect that she may give a public speech later today though. I also am unsure if I would want myself filmed speaking with the PM a day after this had happened, if it was me in their shoes. Not sure though.