Maybe we should be very glad that Obama is going after all?

[Jupiter2Mars]

.. and is being replaced with someone with a very different outlook.

This is what Obama said yesterday:

" And then, in Germany, I’ll visit with Chancellor Merkel, who’s probably been my closest international partner these past eight years. I’ll also signal our solidarity with our closest allies, and express our support for a strong, integrated, and united Europe. It’s essential to our national security and it's essential to global stability. And that’s why the Transatlantic Alliance and the NATO Alliance have endured for decades under Democratic and Republican administrations. "

SFGF is open for interpretation.

It's irrelevant what Obama thinks or says or wants, his time is up. As for the 'special relationship' - that resulted in a war criminal as our PM. I can't see Merkel surviving much longer either which is of her own doing.

The EU is in trouble, high unemployment rates in some countries, bank troubles in Germany and Italy, usual money problems in Greece and fortunately it won't be our money bailing them all out.

As for what people in other countries think of us, who gives a damn. We got the right result in the referendum and will have control over our own affairs.

Rorty: We don't really have complete control in our own affairs. We never will. The world is so closely connected that even the most isolationist countries are affected by foreign decisions in complex ways.

Are you suggesting we won't have more control out of the EU than in? Because I disagree.

The UK will have different control over some affairs outside the EU. What exact,y that means is almost totally unknown but isolationist politics are not known for success and relationships require rules and compromise (like the EU).

I think we'll have a little more control over our own affairs, and much less influence over others.

We will have the control and the power to suggest all sorts of things when trading/negotiating with other nations.

What we won't have any more, is much leverage to inspire them to agree.

Shove Since the RAP has been ongoing since 2014, forgive me if I'm not impressed at Germany only now getting its act in gear and talking about reinforcing the Baltic states, whereas collectively NATO has been actually doing something about it for some time.

Trump is absolutely correct in his assessment of many NATO nations not paying their dues; this was raised at the Welsh summit in 2014, and again at Warsaw this year, and it is a constant refrain in the NATO defence planning process that nations need to spend more. Many European nations have been more than content for the US to pick up their defence tab, and now they may actually have to put their hands in their own pockets instead of those of the US. Germany is amongst those that do not hit the 2% target. Those that do are the US, the UK, Estonia, Greece and Poland.

Grace It's the collective defence article 5 that means taking on the US if you take on a NATO nation, that actually guarantees the peace. The 'interdependence' of the EU member states is a crock of shit. Look at how Greece was dealt with. That really creates the desire and conditions for peace doesn't it?

Merkel is one of the very few democratically elected leaders who has been a constant throughout his presidency, though, isn't she? I read BO's comment as being as much a compliment to her longevity and a nod to her skill at remaining in power through such difficult times.

Stanford Functional Genomics Facility?!

Here I was going to come on and write something intelligent and I got distracted by the STGF. I'm like a dog who sees a squirrel.

South Florida Golf Foundation

Maybe Trump is involved.

lwelj - I thought you were American? How would you know about the detail of British politics?

You thought wrong.

Germany is an important ally, why shouldn't he say so?

Ally?
Really? Oh yes, they have such a good track record.
I don't get all this ass creeping for Germany. People have poor memories

OP I get what you're saying and I think a few others do too, but you are posting in the wrong place.

The EU is in trouble, high unemployment rates in some countries, bank troubles in Germany and Italy, usual money problems in Greece and fortunately it won't be our money bailing them all out.

True, I don't think the rest of Europe are 'laughing at us'. To the contrary.

it's irrelevant what Obama thinks or says or wants, his time is up. As for the 'special relationship' - that resulted in a war criminal as our PM. I can't see Merkel surviving much longer either which is of her own doing.

Sad as some people find it, Obama is now history. What he says means nothing.

Rawsienna, did you just invoke Godwins law there?

if ang let's him That's a good un...

Do you think she'd dare do anything other than keep up the anti Russian hostility?

I agree with most of that rawsienna. But the War is a dim and distant memory now as far as The US and Germany/EU relationship goes.

The US and Germany's interests are the same, expansion in the East. They always have been. The expansion of the EU is an expansion of NATO / The US after all. This is what Ukraine and the coup of Feb 2014 they helped arrange was all about. Ukraine is the key to the caucuses and Russia but also the gateway that Europe reaches the ME. That''s the prize and where we'd be heading, certainly with Hillary as POTUS. (an endless, proxy shooting match with Russia that is). But now, who knows? I suspect the military industrial complex will get it's way in the end..

What is a SFGF? Single freaky girl friend?

I think FGF means feel good factor. But SFGFis anyone's guess?

Needed this laugh after a shitty day. OP being jealous of Germany and being appalled that an American poster could have an opinion on British politics when she, a British poster, started a whole thread on American politics what a tit.

what a tit I think you've summed the whole thing up there!

Redpeppersoup, I love you.

Rawsienna - I don't get all this ass creeping for Germany. People have poor memories hmm

Rawsienna were you the poppy seller last weekend? That is really offensive. Honestly, you should be ashamed.