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Original poster

Camber sands tragedy

229 replies

bibbitybobbityyhat · 25/08/2016 11:41

What on earth has happened at Camber Sands? Are there insufficient life guards or something? I am not prone to hysteria but I would not be going to that beach anytime soon. Such a terrible event, somewhat buried by other news yesterday and the string of drownings in the last week.

OP posts:
Original poster
bibbitybobbityyhat · 25/08/2016 15:00

If this problem with the sand banks is so well known at Camber Sands then why aren't there permanent warning signs and messages about them?

OP posts:
Lweji · 25/08/2016 15:00

See, the last time I walked up to a sand bank, where we needed to cross some water, the first thing I did was to check the tide times to see how safe it was to go and how long to stay for.
No life guard, but there were also lots of people around, including with boards, so opportunity for help if the worst happened, and we never went deeper than waist level.

I was also on a beach with a rip tide recently (eventually the life guards put up a warning sign).
I stayed quite happily where the waves started to crash (as I love diving under them), to under arm level. You follow the movement of the waves as they go towards the shore. Don't try to get back where you started, just towards the shore or alongside it.
Not a problem. Never in danger or felt at risk.

Big waves also come in groups, with the biggest usually last (the 7th). They do quickly follow one another and you must prepare for them. Dive under them, or swim with them like bodyboarders, or jump over them if you can.
After they crash they pull you back. So, always try to use the crashing waves to reach the shore, not between them.

People should always get a feel for the currents as they get in the water and if they plan to swim.

KoalaDownUnder · 25/08/2016 15:07

Katie Hopkins Shock Who even is she?? Is she the vilest person in Britain? Does anyone even like her?!

DoinItFine · 25/08/2016 15:09

"Victim blaming" means blaming the victim of a crime or harm done to them by a person.

It makes no sense at all to extend the concept to the natural environment.

It's to stop people transferring the blame from the perpetrator of damage to their victim.

You can't really blame the sea for drowning people.

"She shouldn't have gone home with the man that raped her." - victim blaming.

"He shouldn't have gone swimming in the dark while drunk." - not victim blaming

As for lifeguards on beaches - a busy beach wiithout lifeguards is often a sign that the beach is a dangerous one to swim in.

Unless you are a very strong and experienced sea swimmer, and have been observing conditions and are aware of tides, it is very foolish to get in swimming on a beach with no lifeguard.

shouldwestayorshouldwego · 25/08/2016 15:14

It's also worth remembering that they might have been competent swimmers in their local sea with different conditions. My experience of sea swimming involved tides and currents. My dc mainly sea swim in the Med for a few weeks a year because I am now a wimp who likes a warm swim so although we talk to them about currents and tides it doesn't have the same impact as being brought up swimming in that context.

DoinItFine · 25/08/2016 15:24

If they were in their clothes, then the sand bank explanation might make more sense.

But it's not clear that they were.

Awful thing whatever happened.

Camber Sands is a beautiful strand, but not a beach I'd fancy swimming on.

PortiaCastis · 25/08/2016 15:27

Returned because I've just read this

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-37182791

Lweji · 25/08/2016 15:27

The reports mention beach clothes - so, shorts.

Another man had died just over a month ago in the same place.

Indeed, people should be strongly discouraged from going there to the beach and swimming in particular.

DoinItFine · 25/08/2016 15:36

Indeed, people should be strongly discouraged from going there to the beach and swimming in particular.

Putting lifeguards on the beach would do the opposite.

It would seem to put the council's seal of approval on Camber Sands as a swimming beach.

If it is very dangerous, it is also not fair to ask people to risk their lives (more thaj lifeguards do already) to save people.

Maybe flying red flags all the time (the beach patrol could fly them) and putting up signs about the sand bars would be a better approach.

shovetheholly · 25/08/2016 15:36

You can maybe see the problem in this picture? You could easily be further out than you think and if the tide comes in at a pace and you aren't a strong swimmer, you could be in trouble getting back to the shore.

Camber sands tragedy
Lweji · 25/08/2016 15:41

DoinItFine

I agree with you.

Lweji · 25/08/2016 15:43

BTW, I see people on the beach all the time putting their things below the tide level and getting them wet when a slightly larger wave comes in or the tide gets stronger. It's highly indicative of how little people know about the sea, even on this simple thing.

DoinItFine · 25/08/2016 15:45

Sorry Lweji if my last point seemed argumentative, it was and AND rather than a BUT.

When I read it back it seemed like maybe it seemed I was disagreeing.

It sounds like you know the area a lot better than I do.

Looking at shovetheholly's pic reminded me of why it never made me consider going for a dip.

Scary looking beach to me Shock

Lovely for walking and flying kites though.

KoalaDownUnder · 25/08/2016 15:49

If it is that dangerous, then maybe it needs to be more clearly signposted.

It is a worry that several people on this very thread have swum there recently, with children, yet others are saying it's a very dangerous beach.

MakeJam · 25/08/2016 16:13

Sussex Police has reported the BitchK Hopkins to Twitter for her disgusting comments about the drownings at Camber Sands.

link

Lweji · 25/08/2016 16:14

DoinItFine
Smile not at all.
I don't know that area at all.
I am familiar with the sea and shallow waters, though. :)

DoinItFine · 25/08/2016 16:43

The sooner we can all start ignoring that awful woman the better.

She is courting your outrage.

That's how she makes her money.

UnderTheGreenwoodTree · 25/08/2016 16:46

It is a worry that several people on this very thread have swum there recently, with children, yet others are saying it's a very dangerous beach.

Isn't it? (Speaking as one of those people!)

Whenever we go (normally fair weather - apart from the scary mist incident!) it does seem the most lovely swimming beach, and there are always loads of families swimming. From memory, there is a flag system there - but you can bet that on a hot day like today, people would swim even if it was red. I wouldn't though.

I have experienced the sandbank thing - where the water shallows, then suddenly plunges deep again. More concerning, when the tide's coming in /going out it is an area that actually attracts children as it becomes a lovely looking pool that they play in.

According to that article, the storms have recently made these much deeper (a metre deep) and that was where the men got into trouble. Those poor men Sad

Decorhate · 25/08/2016 16:50

I'm also surprised and shocked to hear that it's normal not to have lifeguards at beaches in the UK. I don't go to the beach here as its too far away. However most beaches in Ireland have lifeguards during the summer months so I had assumed it would be the same here

DoinItFine · 25/08/2016 16:58

most beaches in Ireland have lifeguards during the summer months

Not "most beaches" by any stretch.

Some beaches do, some don't.

There are countless beaches around the coasts of these islands. Lots do not have lifeguards at all.

Under - the local politicians seems to be at great pains to emphasise how safe it is for swimmimg (anyone who has seen Jaws will not find this reassuring!).

I think it looks a dangerous beach for swimming because it has sandbars and is so flat and shallow. Also because it has no lifeguard, which I always take to mean "not a great idea to swim here" on a popular beach.

But perhaps it is normally safe and they just haven't bothered putting lifeguards on (why? why wouldn't they?).

I'm certainly no expert on the sea off Sussex.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 25/08/2016 17:00

Lots of random comments sorry...

There should be a legal duty by local authorities to provide lifeguards

No. There shouldn't. People need to take some sort of personal responsibility, and learn to think. People die even when lifeguards are on duty. If it is due to sheer ignorance then the curriculum needs looked at.

I was always taught sea safety despite not being brought up in a coastal area.

All beaches will have rips, and these rips will move around.

Always worth remembering that 1m³ of water weighs a tonne - that's really not very much water.

Decorhate · 25/08/2016 17:02

Well most of the ones in the areas I go to do. It possibly varies by county council. Certainly the main beaches in Cork & Kerry have lifeguards unless they are tiny coves.

Sara107 · 25/08/2016 17:04

I think that the coast can be incredibly treacherous unless you know an area very well. We were caught by the tide near Whitby once, despite having carefully read the warning signs and noted the time of the high tide. It was about 3 hours to high tide, and the sea looked like miles away and we were under the cliffs looking for fossils. I couldn't figure out the roaring noise, so went out of the inlet to find that the tide was rushing in, not from out at sea, but along the beach parallel to the cliffs. By going through thigh deep water and climbing quite a steep rocky outcrop we escaped, but the next day walking along the cliff top saw a family trapped exactly where we had been. But it does seem surprising that Camber doesn't have life guards given the number of visitors and the fact that it is close enough to London for day trips (so lots of people who potentially don't understand the local conditions).

KoalaDownUnder · 25/08/2016 17:10

Yes, I don't think it's an 'either/or' thing; I think it needs a two-pronged approach. Better education on the dangers, but also lifeguards at popular beaches.

There is always the potential for people to get themselves into trouble, even if they are educated and experienced.

PinkCircle · 25/08/2016 17:10

I remember the brother and sister in Hunstanton. Think they were called Tom and Katie or possibly Jodie. They were lost so quickly, it was terrifying. I have never forgotten them and occasionally still think of their parents and wonder how they are.....the dad was in remission for leukaemia shortly before they died.