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Camber sands tragedy

229 replies

bibbitybobbityyhat · 25/08/2016 11:41

What on earth has happened at Camber Sands? Are there insufficient life guards or something? I am not prone to hysteria but I would not be going to that beach anytime soon. Such a terrible event, somewhat buried by other news yesterday and the string of drownings in the last week.

OP posts:
PortiaCastis · 25/08/2016 13:48

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37152592
Advice from RNLI

Dozer · 25/08/2016 13:49

So many terrible tragedies on UK beaches this year. I am not knowledgeable at all about the sea and don't know what a rip tide is (for example).

youarenotkiddingme · 25/08/2016 13:50

Not illegal immigrants. Sri Lankans in late teens/ early 20's who visited beach for day. 3 of them worked together.

We stayed at Rye a few years ago. We took kids down to beach and across to sandy bit. We're there maybe 5 minutes paddling when I turned around. The water was pouring in behind us and then comes up over the sand. NO warning signs anywhere. We had to run along beach to where water hadn't come across and get back over. It was terrifying - and I use to be a beach lifeguard and know about off shore winds etc.

GabsAlot · 25/08/2016 13:50

we dont have alot of lifguards but there is warnings about riptides

they were fully clothed thats why people thught they were immigrants but they were from london

bibbitybobbityyhat · 25/08/2016 13:51

Has there even been confirmation there was a rip current at Camber yesterday? I've seen those pictures and videos before - incredibly informative and helpful. Perhaps they should be shown on tv, like the old public information films? I'm sure I've seen tv adverts warning people not to take their barbecues into tents.

OP posts:
YelloDraw · 25/08/2016 13:53

Surely this^ is also victim blaming.

WTF? How is it 'victim blaming'? People need to have a LOT more care about the sea. It is dangerous and people do not give it the respect it deserves.

bibbitybobbityyhat · 25/08/2016 13:53

I must be really thick but I don't see the correlation between being clothed and being immigrants. (I thought it was shorts and t-shirts anyway).

OP posts:
youarenotkiddingme · 25/08/2016 13:53

And yes the beaches with huge tides, flat sands etc are the most dangerous. 1) because people think they are safer and 2) because they create more RIP tides.

youarenotkiddingme · 25/08/2016 13:56

I don't think it's victim blaming bit it's reasonable to wonder why 5 blokes visiting beach as friend all lost their lives. Yes the sea is dangerous but why them all together.

Sidge · 25/08/2016 13:58

I see on the BBC website that it's now 5 young men that have died - 3 in one episode then 2 bodies found later. All were young men who apparently were in the same group, they had all come down from London for the day.

One wonders if they were under the influence of alcohol - not victim blaming at all but a possibility when groups of young men get together in nice weather at the beach. For all 5 to die is just awful and either indicates some common factor or a total underestimation of the risks of the sea.

Lorelei76 · 25/08/2016 14:00

I'm the opposite
I've seen beach patrols but not actual lifeguards
is that even possible to do across all the beaches? I mean, to have them covering a certain area?

KoalaDownUnder · 25/08/2016 14:00

The article I read (The Guardian) said that they were not fully clothed. Confused

Bountybarsyuk · 25/08/2016 14:02

I wonder how the RNLI decide where to cover. At all the beaches we swim at in the South West, there are lifeguards in the summer and we only swim between the two patrol flags- always walk down to them.

This is a very upsetting tragedy, as someone else said, it does seem odd that all five drowned, unless of course all five couldn't swim- is there somewhere that you get cut off from the tide around there, as this is a big danger around us, as is sinking sand from which people crossing it have to be rescued every year.?

Thelastegg · 25/08/2016 14:04

RNLI lifeguards are paid and some, if not all, local authorities part fund the service. Volunteers supplement the provision.

It certainly looks to me that it's a beach that could do with a lifeguard service. One of the local councillors was just on the news and described it as "a safe beach" and that people just need to be aware of water safety and local conditions. Sounds like they don't feel there's a need for a lifeguard service. I hope they rethink.

PortiaCastis · 25/08/2016 14:04

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2713388-AIBU-to-think-that-we-need-more-education-about-the-sea
Here is the previous thread.
I strongly suggest folks watch the series Saving lives at sea which is on iplayer
Yes we do need more education.

The events over the past week and the 2 year old dying will hopefully give relevant people a kick up the bum
I live in Cornwall and have seen some awful tragedies so I'm biased and will leave this thread.
Apologies for my bad language on linked thread

toldmywrath · 25/08/2016 14:05

Camber Sands is one (among many) beaches that I have visited often. I had no idea about the sand bars and sudden depth of the sea (but then I only ever paddle at the edge as I am scared of seaweed etc.)

It was indicated on Radio 5 that the sand bar sticks up & when the tide comes in (at walking pace sometimes as it is relatively flat) then you could be out at sea in shallow water but as you head back to shore it suddenly gets deeper (if you see what I mean)

I feel dreadfully sorry for these young men & what an absolute tragedy.

dragonsarebest · 25/08/2016 14:05

Terrible events in Camber, but the education point is interesting. I live by the sea - have done so for most of my life, went to school by the sea, moved to another coastal town for a bit, but have never noticed any advice about sea safety other than don't swim after dark/after food/after drink etc. I have just learnt about rip tides today following the Camber tragedy, maybe we don't get them around here?

I sea swim fairly often but I'm more worried about a) people pinching my stuff from the beach or b) jellyfish than I am of the sea itself. Mind you, where I live we do have lifeguards etc and that probably makes a big difference.

IfTheCapFitsWearIt · 25/08/2016 14:06

Sorry I have copied this straight from a website (i'll link after) Also pics of the waves discribed. Although dumping waves are also known as plunging.

Understanding waves, tides and currents

Understanding tides and currents will help you stay safe if you like to go swimming in the sea. Find out how to identify safe waves to swim in and how to spot a rip current.

Jump to table of contents
On this page
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How to identify a wave
Beware of dangerous waves
Know the tide times
Recognise the signs of a rip current
Watch out for underwater hazards
If you see someone in trouble
More useful links
How to identify a wave
When swimming, surfing or bodyboarding, it's helpful to understand the different types of waves so you can decide whether to go out or stay ashore.

Spilling waves
Spilling waves are the safest to swim in - they appear when the top of the wave falls down the front of itself.

Surging waves
Surging waves don't break and can easily knock someone over, dragging them out to sea.

Dumping waves
Dumping waves break with great force in shallow water. They are powerful and dangerous and normally occur at low tide. Avoid going into the sea when you see dumping waves.

Beware of dangerous waves
Always watch for dangerous waves, like surging waves or dumping waves and never think it's safe to wave-dodge. The sea is unpredictable and what looks like fun could end in tragedy. Large waves could take you out to sea in a matter of seconds.

You should also beware of rough or choppy water - it can sap your strength and make you too tired to swim. If the water is rough, get out of the sea and wait until it is calm enough to go in again.

Know the tide times
It's important to check the tide times for the beach you're visiting. The tide comes in and out twice a day. This means the beach that you arrived at in the morning can be a very different place only a few hours later. For example, if you walk out at low tide, you may not be able to return if the tide comes in and the water rises.

If you're at the beach with children, make sure they are not playing somewhere that could be cut off if the tide comes in.

You can find out the tide times using EasyTide.

Tide times (EasyTide website)(external link opens in a new window / tab)
Recognise the signs of a rip current
Always watch for signs of rip currents (also known as riptide). A rip current is water that is:

discoloured
choppy
foamy
filled with debris
Some rip currents are so strong they can carry swimmers away from shore before they know what is happening.

What to do in a rip current
If you are caught in a rip current, remember the three Rs:

relax - stay calm and float (don't swim against the current as you will get exhausted)
raise - raise an arm to signal for help and if possible shout to shore
rescue - float, wait for help and don't panic (people drown in rips because they panic)
Always obey directions from the lifeguard.

If you think you can swim out of the rip, swim parallel (alongside) the shore instead of towards it. Once the rip stops pulling you, try to swim to shore. If you feel you can't make it, wave for a lifeguard's help.

Watch out for underwater hazards
There are some dangers at the beach that you can't always see. The depth of the water will change from hour to hour and hide things like rocks, piers and breakwaters (concrete structures in the sea).

Don't jump into the unknown - tombstoning
Tombstoning is a high-risk, unregulated and unsupervised activity that involves jumping or diving from a height into water. Tombstoning is dangerous because:

water depth changes with the tide so the water may be shallower than it seems
you may not see submerged objects, like rocks
strong currents can sweep you away
Before you are tempted to jump:

look for any hazards in the water
check the water's depth - as a rule of thumb, it should be at least five metres deep for a jump from a height of 10 metres
make sure there's a way to get out of the water
don't let alcohol, drugs or peer pressure affect your judgment

Camber sands tragedy
Camber sands tragedy
clam · 25/08/2016 14:06

Yesterday the West - East current on the beach I was on was very strong

there should be warning flags or messages if the current was as you say yesterday.

The West-East current along the South coast is always strong. You only have to look at how any shingle on pebbly beaches banks up against the groynes/breakwaters.

I remember years ago, two small children drowned up at Hunstanton in Norfolk and there was some debate as to where their parents were at the time. During the debate, several locals said that the beach there was notorious for rip tides and strong currents and that locals knew to stay away. But there were NO signs at all warning visitors of it!!!

AmberNectarine · 25/08/2016 14:07

I was there. Even as those men were being airlifted to see and the tide was sweeping in, people were neck deep, holding small children etc. Sigh.

2kids2dogsnosense · 25/08/2016 14:09

peregrina I am also lying in a watery unmarked grave - but even if I had known what to do, I suspect that I would have panicked as I couldn't get my breath and just flailed about wildly sucking in water.

I don't think bobbity was victim blaming - she didn't say "Well, what do you expect swimming that far out" She just said maybe they swam too far out - and this is easily done especially if the tide is going out and you don't realise where you are in relation to the shoe. I took it as a comment, not a judgement.

However, sometimes people DO do stupid things, and often they are things that they have been repeatedly warned about. I wouldn't wish ill them, but we have to take some responsibility for our own safety.

toldmywrath · 25/08/2016 14:10

I live in Kent & Camber is a firm favourite amongst families because of the perceived safety . Beaches in Cornwall seem to have better lifeguard cover & I think it might be because they have larger swells (making them more suitable for surfing. ) By comparison the waves are gentle at Camber (not when it's very windy, but that applies everywhere)

blowmybarnacles · 25/08/2016 14:11

We were at Camber two weeks ago. DP left DD aged 7 in the sea on her own (she can swim a little). She is far more sensible than him and after he left she followed him - he then went back to find her and couldn't (as she had come back to me). He was very very worried.

I was appalled he'd left her on her own. But then not surprised as he is stupid.

I'm glad he got the shock of his life. After this, he has had a bigger shock.

People must respect the sea, it has powers to take lives, even strong swimmers can be caught out. What is shocking is there are no warnings, the beach patrol just walk up and down, no education, not even looking out.

There should be a legal duty by local authorities to provide lifeguards (there isn't, if they can't afford it or see it as a priority, then they don't).

2kids2dogsnosense · 25/08/2016 14:11

peregrina Sorry if it looked as though I thought you had criticised bobbity - I know you hadn't - someone else had gone down her neck!