Was Ellen's tweet really racist?

[Propertyquandry]

here

I'm really surprised at the outrage over this. I cannot even see how it can be seen as casual racism. He's just been declared, once again, as the fastest man on the planet. Everybody loves him and she makes a joke basically alluding to the fact that he'd get her where she wants to go quicker than anything else. He even retweeted it, and not at all in a negative way. All the talk of riding him like a mule. It's a mock up of him giving her a piggy back ffs! It seems if he was white or she was black it would be ok.

[DoinItFine]

I don't think anybody thinks she intended the tweet to be racist.

That doesn't mean it's not racist.

[babajuice]

"I just think this particular tweet was so blatantly obviously about speed that it's a setback to call the woman a racist because of it."

Yes, but as discussed, there are other connotations and your view that it is obviously about speed is not shared by others. Also, the photo can be culturally insensitive or racist without Ellen even being aware of it, so no, the two aren't mutually exclusive and it does not automatically make her racist.

Also, it's not a set back, it is encouraging debate.

[peargrapes]

"UB has apparently found this comment amusing/funny according to a poster on here. I'm sure if he'd found it offensive we would have heard."

So he says. Saying it's offensive would involve him in a race debate which he may not wish to be part of. It's a shame that his success is overshadowed by this but his responses makes sense in terms of minimising the inevitable media hyperbole around this.

However I don't believe that because UB claims not to be offended other people have no cause to feel uncomfortable. After all, this was't a private message from Ellen to him but a public twitter post.

[Propertyquandry]

Peargrapes, yes, I accept that. But also spending part of my childhood as a (pseudo) Irish Catholic living in a Protestant area of The North also gave me a little perspective of what it's like to feel part of an oppressed minority. Just a glimpse but that experience has affected and informed much of my adult decision making. I'm not someone who assumes racism doesn't exist or is dead and gone simply because I don't see it. In fact, I've actually witnessed it in public the week after the Brexit vote. I just think that racists are better at disguising their racism these days. But without in any way accepting casual racism I still think it's ok to say there are no racist connotations here. I fundamentally disagree with the premise that it would be OK if it came from Oprah but from a white woman, it's never ok. That POV is so absolute that it has nowhere to go and I personally, whilst understanding the root of it, think we must try to move past such absolute ideas.

[babajuice]

BengalCatMum
"But then again being white I have no valid opinion on the matter."

Of course you do. You just gave it.

[peargrapes]

The image, apart from the racism debate is totally not witty. It's utterly naff.

[babajuice]

"personally, whilst understanding the root of it, think we must try to move past such absolute ideas."

"But without in any way accepting casual racism I still think it's ok to say there are no racist connotations here."

OP, so within the same post you are saying we must move past absolutes, but you can absolutely say there are no racist connotations in the photo?

[CheerfulYank]

Well no, OP, that wasn't quite what I acknowledged. I don't know anyone of any race who believe interracial relationships should be banned. Even the black women who don't like my friend's marriage to a black man don't think it should be illegal or anything. And with them it isn't so much an imbalance of power as in, they don't think that my friend or other white women are controlling or powerful over their black partners.

I think their biggest objection is that white women (and light skinned women of color) have historically been seen as more desirable, more of a "prize" for men than black women. They (rightfully) hate that so many beauty standards are based on white people.

[MackerelOfFact]

It could be considered racist.... a white person using a black person as a vehicle for their own benefit.

It could be considered sexist.... woman needs to piggyback on a man to get tasks done effectively.

It could be considered homophobic.... lesbian woman really just wants a straight man to wrap her legs round.

It could be age discrimination.... person in their 60s needs assistance from person in their 20s.

IMHO it's none of the above in reality, it's a comedian hitching a ride from the fastest human on the planet, but recontextualised it could be.

[Propertyquandry]

I meant the absolute of saying such images are always ok if both people in the picture are black or white but never if the one on the bottom is black and the one on top, white.

And of course, whether an image is racist or not will almost always be subjective. My objection is basing the opinion on the race of those depicted before even considering the subject matter or any clear explicit text.

[whattheseithakasmean]

I am still aghast that there are posters who have never heard of Usain Bolt or thought he was British. Some people must live in bubble.

[babajuice]

Okay, I may have misinterpreted, but this kind of reads like you're saying when it's your opinion being challenged, there shouldn't be absolutes, and you should not be able to be definitively 'wrong', but if you don't see things from a particular perspective, the other party can definitely be in the wrong and there's no grey area.

[babajuice]

"My objection is basing the opinion on the race of those depicted before even considering the subject matter or any clear explicit text."

How do you know what order anyone viewed it in though? Maybe at first someone saw Ellen and UB, and then it sunk in and they didn't like the connotation. Maybe not. I don't know and neither do you. The fact is, some people think it's racist. They have reached that conclusion through viewing the photo through the lens of their personal experience. It's not up to me or you to tell them they're wrong.

[Propertyquandry]

Must go and feed children but just quickly,
CheerfulYank, apologies if I misquoted you or misread your post. DH and I lived in the states for 1yr and I've actually spoken to people who hold this viewpoint. And they go actually write to RC companies concerning the matter. They told me they'd written to an actor on ER who was a black Dr dating a white Dr. They felt he should be shown to be dating an attractive black successful Dr. They saw that as mildly racist. I'm not sure if the outcome. I guess that's more in line with what you were saying about white beauty bring prized higher. I went on a date with a black guy the first month at university. We didn't particularly get on and didn't have sex but I was asked repeated afterwards about the size of his penis so I get that those stereotypes still exist even amongst students at nice liberal RG universities. Anyway, I digress. Sorry to have misquoted you.
Right, feeding time at the zoo!

[Propertyquandry]

Quickly, no, it's not up to me to tell them their views are wrong. But I still believe that something does not automatically become offensive by virtue of someone being offended by it.

[Hockeydude]

of course it isn't racist

[Hockeydude]

What about the people who are offended by Ellen being accused of racism then

[i8sum314]

Did white people used to use black people to give them piggy backs??

As a white person I look at it and just think, they're friends, she's joking, he's fast........ I get that that's my perspective being ignorant of some aspects of history. But most banter is about the 'now'.

[peargrapes]

"But I still believe that something does not automatically become offensive by virtue of someone being offended by it."

If somebody is offended by something it is offensive to that person.

If a group of people are offended by something it is offensive to this group.

If somebody and / or groups of people are offence by something, does this mean it is offensive to all human kind? well, no of course not.

OP, Your posts read as if you want to decide what is deemed offensive and can be generalised as offensive and what not.

The question are you able to feel empathy for any group of people who feel offended or hurt by something that wouldn't seem hurtful or offensive to you? Are you able acknowledge the fact that other people get to decide what is offensive or acceptable to them?

Is your issue about censorship? If Ellen takes down the tweet (did she?) it is her choice of not wanting to appear offensive or indeed offend people. She would show empathy and understanding of the issue and go with that rather than insisting on that the tweet wasn't meant in a racist way. Either would be fine and would be Ellen's decision.

[peargrapes]

"What about the people who are offended by Ellen being accused of racism then"

That's fine, feel free to feel offended . Whatever rocks your boat.

[babajuice]

Property Sorry I keep thinking of responses - I know you're having lunch now so obviously it's fine if you can't answer, but the only people deeming it offensive, are the people who found it offensive. Which you've previously said you understand.

I'm not really sure what the issue is. People who aren't offended by it aren't being forced to find it offensive. I just suggested it was a good idea to listen to the reasons why some are offended.

Hockey if you or anyone else is offended on Ellen's behalf, then that's fine. No one can dictate that. I could explain to you why I'm not offended on her behalf, but I can't tell you what to think and feel.

[i8sum314]

Interesting thread. I enjoyed reading this thread but propertyquandary I was born and raised in Ireland and I don't know any of those rabble rousing songs or the fields of Athenry! or pegín lettermore (although that title does sound very familiar) I think they're more of a second generation thing. my parents listened to Abba and the bee gees.

[lljkk]

Ridiculous row... at the time, everyone who objected to this image (because it showed a white woman in close physical contact with a black man) was called racist and to get over it. Weirdly I can't find the Sports Illustrated version online... has it been deliberately expunged from searches??