Mass shooting in Orlando

[MissJM1]

How sad. Inside a gay nightclub, they say there are hostages and the shooter could have an explosive

I think it's time the US looked at their Right to Bear Arms, it was a constitution set over 200 years ago and obviously is now not working.

England had something similar that was part of common law but 200 years later there was a Firearms Act (back in the 1920's I think) that has been tweaked and worked upon ever since.

It is an identical attack in ideological motive. Like Paris, London, Brussels it's an attack on freedom to live your life how you want, without fear of persecution or death. We got to the point with Paris; freedom of speech trumps offending others religious beliefs. I've no idea why we're skirting round the subject. US gun laws are abominable but what's also abominable is an Islamic scholar speaking in an Orlando mosque recently, insisting that gays must die!!

Trump is already trying to gain political gain out of the attacks by criticising Obama and Clinton for not using the words 'extremist Islam' in their respective reactions. Prick.

IMO it's extremists - I don't care whether they are extreme muslims or any other religion or political direction. It's people who are so sure they are right and that anybody else who does not agree deserves to die AND that it is their goddam duty to free the world from them that do the most damage.

US gun laws are abominable but what's also abominable is an Islamic scholar speaking in an Orlando mosque recently, insisting that gays must die!!

Do the US have a law against 'inciting hate crimes'? Something that curtails 'free speech' in some circumstances??
FFS.

Trump is already trying to gain political gain out of the attacks by criticising Obama and Clinton for not using the words 'extremist Islam' in their respective reactions. Prick

Ironic that this was written in the US press just one day before this awful massacre.

"On the general topic of gun rights, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump strongly differ. He got the endorsement of the National Rifle Association, and she won the support of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

He calls her "the most anti-gun, anti-Second Amendment candidate ever to run for office." She favors new restrictions she describes as "common-sense gun safety measures consistent with the Second Amendment."

Ego we need to name that again and again. Faith of many types is used as an excuse for homophobia. I used to believe that removing religion from the state was the answer but this does not seem to be working in France for example.

Islamic scholar at Orlando mosque for those interested. 'Hope the link works, never tried before!

With reference to Switzerland,m y understanding is that most folk have guns (and have been properly trained in their use), but ammunition is very strictly controlled, and people don't have that kicking around.

Religions and homosexuality: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_religion

In short views different in every religion....

"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest"

"But whilst I might link articles and talk of gun control blah blah, nothing takes away from the fact there are 50 families out there grieving, along with very many praying that their kids pull through after horrific injuries. My thoughts are with them."

Absolutely- but actually it is 51, somewhere there is an Afghan/American family not only grieving the loss of their son but struggling with the fact that he committed this terrible act.

very true
his father has apologised already

I agree with you, Ego.
'Othering' is exactly the phrase, v dangerous.
I've given up trying to debate gun control with gun-owning American acquaintances and I would be too cowardly to attempt any kind of reasoned debate with the Christian Right in the States. Again, it's about radicalism, isn't it?

I have no idea how the families of attackers live with the knowledge of what their loved one has done. Unless they too sympathise, but many don't.

I cannot begin to imagine how his family must feel. But equally, how could they not know something terrible was going on with him? Perhaps not to the point of mass murder, but radicalisation?

I have just read an accomplice has been arrested in California. He did not work alone.

I cannot begin to imagine how his family must feel. But equally, how could they not know something terrible was going on with him? Perhaps not to the point of mass murder, but radicalisation?

If the Washington Post report is accurate, by the sounds of it his father struggles a little with coherence, and maybe reality. Which may explain the lack of knowledge, or comprehension that something was very wrong with his son.

www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/12/orlando-shooting-suspects-father-hosted-a-political-tv-show-and-even-tried-to-run-for-the-afghan-presidency/

iPost , that article could also suggest his father held quite radical views himself, even if he did lead a fictitious existence on YouTube.

That's putting it mildly.

"The father of Omar Mateen, identified by police as the man behind the carnage at an Orlando nightclub early Sunday morning, is an Afghan man who holds strong political views, including support for the Afghan Taliban."

Nothing can ever protect absolutely against a determined nutter.

Yes. But we should still try and the US government is not trying if it does nothing about access to guns. They need to learn from the Swiss.

I agree nuttymango and what choice do we have? Do we just give up...

One thing I don't get... it's been a long time since my clubbing days, but back in the day I had my handbag searched etc, how the hell did this murderer get into a night club with an assault rifle, another weapon plus 'a device'?

Also, he was twice investigated by the FBI for terrorist comments and links with someone who defected to IS,, why at that point did they not revoke his gun licence? (which I understand he had)

Thank god I woke up to no more fatalaties and the injured I hope are pulling through.

Statesman You should know by now that socialisation has nothing to do with it.

Roussette sorry for suddenly going silent on you. I guess that's what happens when you put your head down for a quick 5 minute rest and wake up many hours later. You said that having a gun definitely doesn't help keep you safe because in some experiments the people didn't get to their gun and "kill" the attacker soon enough. I don't think you can say from those experiments that you would always get the same results every day, although sometimes it might play out a similar way. I don't think a gun guarantees my safety at all, I take the view that if shit happens, it gives me a fighting chance. Also you said those experiments were testing response to an unexpected attack, what about the times you are expecting an attack, your reaction would be quicker. And also remember that while those tests try to replicate the experience of a real attack, the people doing it knew it wasn't really an attack, they knew they were safe. In a real attack they would find they were capable of moving quicker because the body is capable of pushing past its limits when we are in real danger. But doing that for anything other than a short amount of time is very damaging so your body puts limitations on what you can do. You're only going to be able to hit those limits if and when you know your life depends on it, and you don't have that in a test.

Hey Pacific, I've often wondered what the parents of an attacker are thinking after one of these attacks. Do they feel guilty even though it wasn't their fault? Some probably do and end up torturing themselves by thinking maybe we should have noticed something was wrong. Do they stop loving their child or do they still feel something for him?