Mass shooting in Orlando

[MissJM1]

How sad. Inside a gay nightclub, they say there are hostages and the shooter could have an explosive

Don't get the argument that's popped up had people had guns here they could've stopped him.dark club..possibly untrained people and with drinking as well. Be hard to work out who was shooting if so many being shot.

It needs to change but guess when it becomes a common occurance the shock factor is less. It'll never happen! So it all continues.

Rip

Iljkk Understood. And like other religions there are different factions, but unlike the others, it is decentralised. While political Islamists who, right now, are shouting the loudest by enforcing sharia on the world, this will continue. A reformation is needed within Islam as the Sunni zealots are driven by a political ideology embedded within Islam itself.

Dunblane was an utter tragedy- the difference in the UK is that we pretty quickly passed legislation which means it has not happened again. I read earlier that this is Obamas fifteenth speech he has had to give after a mass shooting. Americans seem to have no concept that they could legislate to stop this

I just don't know if Islam is that much worse than Judaism or Christianity (or Hinduism or Buddhism) for producing crazy violent zealots. But Islam is a big religion (many adherents). So even a tiny number of nutters can seem like way too many.

"Has that been confirmed yet? Or is it a hate crime carried out by someone who happened to be Muslim?"

Not confirmed, but the FBI statements are suggestive and a news agency with close links to ISIS has put out their claim of responsibility.

So yes, I think this is like another Sousse, what the individually radicalised can do on their own. Or the San Bernadino attacks.

Here is a resume of Obama's speeches. How moving, how many more?

Speeches

Sadly the gunman is reported to have shouted his allegiance to IS before gunning down his victims, and IS have now claimed responsibility for the attack.

Christianity (the only religion I have any personal experience of) did not look quite so 'love thy neighbour' in the middle ages. Or during the Reformation/Counterreformation. Or during the crusades. Or any number of other historical events during which utter dehumanising atrocities were justified in the name of religion or God. Often of course to hide political or finical gain.

And I think the same is true for Islam currently. The fact that it is so decentralised makes it harder to control - there is no 'pope' like figure to lead. And the decentralisation also makes it easier for many 'normal' Muslims to lead peaceful and tolerant lives. Unfortunately they don't make the news very often. Other than when they get shot - like the apparently much loved shopkeeper in Glasgow who wished his Christian neighbours a happy Easter

Extremists are what I am frightened of. People who know they are Right. And whoever is not with them is against them. AND who then have easy access to guns.

chilled Hey Dolores, you said you can't understand my reason for carrying a gun but then go on to give the reason: protection. We live in a world where bad people sometimes attack good people. You've seen this yourself, you've been attacked multiple times, that's the sort of thing I'm protecting myself against. It's nice that you were able to disarm people using communication skills, batons or spray, but sometimes that's not possible. Am I willing to shoot and kill another human being? Yes I am, but I don't really want to, and I'd do my best not to*

I assume you live in the US - do you think that all of us in the UK are being somehow unsafe when we go about our daily lives or is there something inherent in Americans that make you life dangerous?

This is a genuine question as I don't understand why anyone living in a developed country that's not at war would be so worried about coming to harm that they routinely arm themselves unless they are worried about all the other people who have also choosen to bear arms

When a plane crashes/African girls taken/bus bombed or a soldier is be-headed, I think we all expect the perpetrator to be Muslim. Even more tragic are the atrocities committed by Islamists that don't make the news.

The other religions are inherently violent but they've moved beyond the 7th century. ISIS strive to preserve the authenticity of doctrine and woe betide anyone who even dares to express another view.

Those poor people.

How awful it must have been. I feel so sad for those involved.

Thoughts are with them.

I don't think it is at all helpful to pretend that some religions including Islam are not homophobic. This needs to be named and challenged. To pretend this isn't the case is just another form of racism.

Genuine question: is any of the larger world religions expressly pro-LGBT lifestyles? Or just more tolerant in how doctrine is interpreted in RL?

I think the point is that IS are quite vociferous in their hatred for the LGBT community and openly throw gay people off buildings, burn them in cages, behead them, gun them down...In the name of religion - albeit an extreme version. But to close your eyes and pretend this is not happening - that people aren't being indoctrinated into their evil ideology and carrying out such disgusting deeds and more in the name of radical Islam is simply naive.

Interesting question. I would assume the Quakers are not homophobic, and am not aware of the Methodist religion expressing any views on this but am happy to be corrected.

I'm bemused and pissed off by some of the posters on this thread. I absolutely support gun control but why is this even being discussed in relation to a terror attack? We didn't harp on about it after Paris or Brussels. Did our superior gun controls prevent any of those attacks? Does anyone truely believe that gun control laws stop terrorists?

My understanding of the US Constitution (2nd Amendment) that it recognises the right of citizens to bear arms - primarily to be able to protect themselves against Government getting to big for it's boots and screwing them over. It's the ability to raise an armed militia of ordinary people to fight Government, rather than each other, that seems to be at the heart of this.

I think that we in the UK find the American attitude to firearms so baffling because we assume that we have the same fundamental outlook on life as North Americans, because we both speak English. In fact, I think that apart from the language, there is little commonality between us.

lack of gun control makes it much easier though- that's obvious

Shallishanti, seriously, if a terrorist wants to gun innocent victims down or blow them to bits with a suicide vest, no gun laws will make any difference.

But harder gun controls don't stop terrorist attacks. If people want to massacre innocents then they'll get hold of the weapons. Why is this the talking point when it wasn't for Paris and Brussels? It seems like it's a bit "well the Americans brought it on themselves" which is smug and distasteful.

I absolutely support gun control but why is this even being discussed in relation to a terror attack?

AFAIC it's because this man purchased two weapons over the counter only two weeks before murdering all those poor people