Junior Doctors Strike

[Lanchester]

Do the Junior Doctors seriously think that they are still
respected for always putting the interest of their individual patient first?

Thank you for that summary Sally I don't know how anyone with half a brain can think JDs are being unreasonable.

oranges - I agree with you that commebts like this are quite irritating and rude in them self. I think I'm fairly intelligent. I've made sure I've read the BMA and the Government papers (as far as available). So relying on primary sources. I've also spoken to the consultants I know. I think I've taken reasonable steps to come to my conclusions.

Therefore being told I have "half a brain" for not agreeing with anonymous posts on the Internet with no facts to back them up doesn't really encourage me to change my mind

What a silly thing to say, op. A pulot going on strike would land the plane first. No JD is stopping work in the middle of an operation, which is what your analogy requires in order to work.

You're being ridiculous and goady. Silly.

I fully support the strikes, the government hasn't listened to people so they've had little choice but to do walk out. They also have my full respect!

To those initial comments about 'how they aren't putting the patients first' of course they are, the proposed changes aren't very safe or fair for the doctors and patients. If for example, the changes do happen: it would mean the doctors are working whilst they are overworked, overtired and stress, if they lost concentration for even a second it could have dangerous consequences on the patient.

If it was all about money then presumably a privatised NHS would be welcomed by the Junior Docs (and other HCP's)? It's pretty much accepted that the private sector creates competition and therefore wages are surely likely to increase in order to recruit and retain the best talent. Sounds like a win win for current NHS staff, unless they actually believe that this fight is about patient safety and access for all.

I am growing increasingly irritated with the endless "not safe not fair" mantra. Are we all such morons that we can only communicate in monosyllables? I find it immensely patronizing.

Also are we really suggesting that national health policy should be influenced by the availability of childcare for (mostly) female doctors at weekends? It's nuts (and I say that as an unreconstructed feminist). Look at how pilots manage and do that. It's not difficult.

The Tories have a mandate for a 7-day NHS and it's not the BMA's place to usurp a promise made by a government upon its election which (for once) it is actually trying to make good on.

If the Tories want to deliver a 7 day NHS then they need to provide MORE doctors and support staff, not just expect the existing ones to do more work for less pay.

I bet you wouldn't tolerate it in YOUR workplace.

The tories are not trying to make good on the 7 day nhs promise at all... several people have mentioned up thread that a 7 day nhs is not just about doctors but about all the support staff too. Doctors do not work in isolation.

Well I work more weekends than my consultant husband and I don't receive a penny extra. I would LOVE a 13.5% pay rise and an increment for anti social hours, but I can't see that happening in law any time soon...

So younggirl because you don't get it then neither should anyone else? It's not a race to the bottom.

Oh god "race to the bottom" - are we playing lefty bingo? Great!

No, but the JD's need to think about affordability on 2 levels:

• whether their proposed remuneration is affordable in the context of the diminishing health budget and demographic challenges (and given the parlous state of some hospitals, I don't think further enriching the doctors is a sensible priority); and

• whether it is reasonable to expect the public at large to pay ever-more tax to fund your already-rather-generous remuneration and incredibly generous pensions, when most of them do not themselves benefit from equally generous terms.

I wonder how many of the poor sods who got their operations cancelled are on minimum wage or zero hours contracts? I hate the idea of using the sick and vulnerable to score political points.

I hate the idea of using the sick and vulnerable to score political points.

And yet, here you are doing just that.

I support the Junior Doctors strike. My daughter is a Junior Doctor. She regularly does three, four or five 12 hour night shifts in a row. (Which are actually usually longer than 12 hours, as they rarely get away on time!) There were only two doctors (one Junior, one Registrar) to cover two children’s wards containing 40 children. One night when she arrived at 8pm there were still several patients from the day who had not been seen to yet, plus a ton of paperwork to get through, which the day shift doctors had not had time to deal with. There were then 12 further patients admitted during the night, some in serious condition. My daughter was on her feet from 8pm to 7am before she had a chance to get a drink of water! Would you want your child in a hospital so understaffed? It is about the safety of the patients...and this is a very very unsafe situation!

And thanks for this thread, OP.

It wouldn't have occurred to me to take cake to the picket line. But now that someone's mentioned it, I happen to have some in and will be off up there as soon as this load of laundry finishes.

I am 100% with the doctors . the m,ajority work so bloody hard - its not just about them its also about the support staff as well.

Pausing what an infantile response. I have no political point to make. I am not the one leaving patients to suffer or ensuring that long-awaited ops are cancelled. I am simply saying that I think they are wrong.

And I am sure your fucking cake will be a great comfort to the poor sods having their operations cancelled or unable to get help for their sick child. It's not a birthday party for fucks sake. How about showing some respect or consideration for the impact on ordinary people who are sick. Idiot.

I'm guessing there are adequate staff for 7 days in your workplace young?

Imagine a shop, or a bank, or a school, or council offices, who currently open 5 days.

Then the directors promise the public that you will now open 7 days. Fine.
However! There will be no more staff. The existing staff, who already work full time, will now have to work MORE hours to honour this promise, and effectively have their pay cut too.

Now, if you worked in, say, a bank 5 days a week, and you were suddenly told you'd be doing 6 days a week and taking home less money - would you be ok with that? Really?

I am 100% behind the doctors, yes full strike is not ideal but it's not a decision they took lightly.

Of course you're making political points, YoungGirl. And trying - increasingly vehemently - to cite the sick and low paid in your support.

Despite the number of same on this very thread saying they support the strike.

Personally, I think it would be the way to go in this country as we cannot carry on as it is now. I would not have an issue with bringing in a levy to fund it, as well as encouraging those that can afford to, to privately insure.

I also would not have an issue with bringing in a charge for GP appointments etc

You are playing right into Jeremy Cunt's hands with statements like this.

He is TRYING HIS BEST to dismantle the NHS so that once it is in tatters, the public will accept privatisation.
Best way to get people to do something? Make them think it was their idea.

1 - have a desire to privatise the NHS
2 - make the NHS unworkable
3 - blame the staff and users for the problems
4 - accept the growing public demand to sort it out
5 - reluctantly (ha fucking ha) suggest privatisation
6 - retire with fucking millions whilst ordinary people are left unable to access healthcare.

The NHS has survived and thrived for decades.
Surprise surprise, now that we have a health secretary who wants privatisation, it is suddenly unworkable and in crisis.

I fucking hate that man.

How many posts do we see on this very site complaining about shortcomings in the NHS? It's daily - my GP won't refer me, my maternity care was shit and now I am incontinent, my consultant was rude and unhelpful. Do people honestly believe it's all about money? Even if it is, should we really be diverting more funds from the front line into the pockets of doctors - because that is what the BMA is asking us to support.

There are 2 problems I have with JD's - their greed and their inability to understand basic economics.

It wasn't until I travelled and got sick in other countries that I learned what a functional and high performing healthcare system was like. It is nothing like the NHS. I agree with charley that healthcare in this country cannot be taxpayer funded indefinitely and this Scargill-esque refusal to accept reality is going to do nobody any Favours. The industrial action will only hasten this process.

Ah well, if enforcing the Junior Doctors' contract will mean no consultant is ever rude and unhelpful...

Why didn't you say so before!