Junior Doctors Strike

[Lanchester]

Do the Junior Doctors seriously think that they are still
respected for always putting the interest of their individual patient first?

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Junior doctors rates

Thanks MissTriggs. It's not every night.... But I have wanted to be a doctor since I was a child and would never have imagined I could feel so shit about it to be honest. I have always been really passionate about it and been very involved in teaching undergrads as well as the juniors (more junior than me!) etc but have had to decline invites to speak at careers events in the last few months as I just can't encourage people to persue medical careers in good conscience.
Im really sorry you've found it hard to question people about the bma stance, if there's anything I can answer please let me know. For my own sanity I may not hang around here too much but you can always pm me :) I promise I won't troll you!

Draylon - you have offended a lot of people gratuitously at 19:30
Then in your most recent post you couldn't even apologise !
Instead you said you don't dispute any of today's findings ...and then almost immediately contradict yourself by saying you dont agree with all the findings.
You have low integrity and credibility.

Draylon

"I am not disputing any of today's findings"

"I actually don't agree with all of the findings"

Before you tell others that they are or aren't discussing an issue, would you clarify what you meant by the above? You're not making a lot of sense yourself.

Training HCPs takes up huge amounts of clinicians time and we are often not able to take all the students universities want us to because we are understaffed and we all have a full clinical caseload. So the first step is to make sure staff don't leave the NHS. Clinician training in UK is very thorough so takes time and is strictly supervised to ensure patient safety.

Thank you for covering today, raineras. I'm glad to hear your DC is doing well.

Your post is factually wrong about nurses not striking. Nurses and midwives have planned several strikes in the last few years.

In 2014 nurses, midwives and other HCPs actually went on strike.

In 2015 the Royal College of Nursing said it would strike for the first time ever, if Hunt's 7-day NHS seriously impacts its members. (It hasn't actually called a strike yet.)

Also in 2015 a strike by nurses and midwifes was called off at the last minute when the government made concessions two days before the strike.

Can'tChoose

Thank you for everything you do, Can'tChoose.

Haha thanks pausingFlatly, I didn't mean to start a pity party though. For balance, my job is amazing as often as it is hard and can be the best thing ever. I love my patients and clinical work and I feel very privileged to be able to do it.
This political nonsense is getting me down. But this too shall pass...

Draylon
You have still notably not apologised for the offence you caused.
Also, you should not be worried that the BBC gave major prominence to the Hillsborough disaster and the way that many hundreds of people had to fight for 27 years to establish the truth about the deaths and injuries of their loved ones.
And yes, since you mention that public sector workers were found to have failed, you should recognise that such serious public sector ( or any sector) failings should be 'forensically' examined to find out the cause of the failings, to ascertain who was responsible, and to avoid such failings in future.

Drayton I see you're not replying to any of my posts, which says a lot about you and your views on Liverpool. You make a laughable claim to integrity (which you can't even spell!) in recognising today's not the day - though you only seem to realise that when others pointed it out. What a perceptive, forensic analysis you'd bring to all this, if only you could string a coherent argument together. Never mind, the Hillsborough inquest jury, who heard and carefully examined evidence over the course of two years, came to an informed decision, so I don't think the world needs to put much faith in your biased and unsupported personal view.

Back to the strike: even Sky News tonight said that though public support for it had diminished slightly, it was still significant. They've also reported that Hunt says this will be his last big job in politics. Happy to oblige, Jeremy!

Draylon

As someone who was at Hillsborough on that dreadful day I find your comments completely despicable.

- and the 6 o clock news dedicated 75% of their time to Hillsborough.

That's because 96 people died and it involved the biggest cover up by a police force in British history

It is more newsworthy than the strike because it was a shocking tragedy with a devastating aftermath

The strike goes on today so no doubt you'll get your 17 minutes coverage tonight on the six o clock news

raineras

Every single nurse I know would walk out on strike over pay and conditions if their unions would extract their thumbs from their arses. Perhaps forget the 1950's vision on nurses being doctors willing handmaidens, an remember that they are a graduate workforce who are a bit sick of being treated like twats?

I have read this thread with interest, and am heartened that at least a majority of posters seem to support junior doctors.

To the OP, cutting junior doctor pay will not solve all the problems in the NHS. I don't understand how you are not able to see how it will lead to a recruitment crisis. Doctors work LTFT usually because of childcare commitments, and retire early because of burn out. Less pay will not change this.

In terms of increasing the number of medical students, this has already been done in recent years. Most importantly, the quality of training has to be maintained, and there are already often too many medical students in placements for them to have sufficient patient contact and clinicians to train them to become safe practitioners.

I striked yesterday with a heavy heart. I know it is not ideal, but far less ideal is having an unsafe contract pushed through. This contract would be unsafe due the long and erratic working hours, leading to mistakes through exhaustion. I also know that patients were not put at risk as my consultants provided excellent cover.

The majority of the public I saw on the picket line were supportive.

Nurses went on strike in the 80s. I don't know how RCN can say what they said in2015, it's total bollocks. Afaicr, nurses withdrew their labour (technically they left emergency cover, but they wouldn't have had the senior staff behind them and willing to cover for them, like the JDs do now) several times under Thatcher/maybe it was Major?

Sorry to be so vague - it was a long time ago, but was as shocking then as the JD strike is now. However, they had enormous public support, as do the JDs.

Boaty - am I right in thinking a large percentage of hospital nurses now work through agencies which pays better than being contracted directly to the NHS?

The contract forced on nurses back in the 1990s led directly to a rapid rise in the use of agency nursing staff, a collapse in continuity and quality of patient care.

It seems to me that this is where the junior Dr crisis is going with pay scale being so unattractive that most will go and work as locums for higher pay as soon as they are able to do so because they will get paid more and hospitals will be so desperate they will have to pay up or have no junior Drs to staff the hospital and this will be especially true in the unattractive times of day in unattractive areas like A&E . In the long run, the NHS will save nothing from this new contract if it is imposed. There is a rate of pay that the job requires to attract the right calibre staff and in the long run economic equilibrium dictates that the rate for the job is determined by supply and demand. There is already a shortage in some specialisms and that will only get worse.

The uplift that junior Drs get paid in the old contract recognises that some specialisms like A&E are unattractive compared to say neurology which my consultant Dr friend specifically chose. He say she chose neurology because you are never called out at night, you cant kill anyone accidentally and we know practically nothing about neurology compared to many other areas of medicine.

AIBU to attempt to make CantChoose (very apt name) smile by telling her I just did a skype call with an important new client only to realise at the end I had the camera pointed up my nose.

I think IANBU.

they are wild primroses too

I think in London there is a higher percentage of agency nurses/midwives than anywhere else, where I practice the percentage is far lower and in my dept we don't use agency at all. We have an in house staff bank that pays lower rates. So as it stands we get paid the same rate we were on when we joined the bank, a year later if we achieve our increment our pay rises slightly in our substantive post but not our bank post. As a result you can find that if you do a normal rota'd (is that a word?!) shift on say a Wednesday but a bank shift on the Thursday you get paid less on a Thursday for doing exactly the same job. There isn't a huge amount of our staff on the bank leading to bigger gaps on the shop floor.

Boaty, thanks for mentioning previous nurses' strikes - I dimly remember these too and was a bit thrown by the poster claiming nurses never strike.

It can be correct that the RCN has never had a strike though, as there are multiple nurses' unions.

The RCN has not historically been a striking union but I think that they've recently said they would ballot their members if necessary and would prepare for strike action.

The government's excuse for imposing the contract was a manifesto promise for a "7 day NHS". What they didn't reveal was they intended to stretch an already under resourced service further with no additional resources or manpower. I fully support the junior doctors.

Many nurses left the RCN back then and joined Unison, due to their stance on striking. Despite being members of the RCN, some nurses did strike anyway.

I think Unison was called something else back then. BIckerstaff was in charge, I remember (but I might be mixed up).

Anyway, JDs striking now is not the first time HCPs have done it.