Junior Doctors Strike

[Lanchester]

Do the Junior Doctors seriously think that they are still
respected for always putting the interest of their individual patient first?

I too fully support the Junior Doctors
I genuinely believe their concerns are not for themselves but for patient safety and the future of the NHS

I totally support the junior doctors. If this contract goes through it will damage the NHS and it's workers. There will have been plenty of emergency cover at hospitals today. I also don't know of anyone personally that doesn't support the junior doctors.

quality of debate is rising, yeah

Sallysparrow - any suggestions about helping lower the attrition rate?

Sally, so why don't you consider the independent guardian as enough to protect doctors from being overworked?

It doesn't surprise me that those newspapers print that sort of story, the price of a free press and they do have a point. A lot of people in this country could never dream of self funding a trip abroad to do some voluntary work or have friends who reward a bit of babysitting with a helicopter ride. So it does need to be remembered when doctors strike for more money that they are not poorly paid.

Mistigri, I wouldn't call two billion pounds a year a small amount, granted we won't recover it all but we don't even charge for a lot of it. This country already has a bureaucracy dedicated to chasing payments, which could probably do with being enlarged.

Doctors wouldn't have to police it, the receptionists and office staff will. Its not that hard to get an insurance number or proof of ID when they come in. My GP's office staff took a pic of me when I joined and proof of address and ID, its hardly policing.

I agree taxation is ideal but people don't want to pay more, its not the doctors fault or the governments, people just don't vote to pay more tax. Even the extreme left winger that has taken over the labor party is not suggesting charging more tax for the NHS.

Full support from EVERYONE I KNOW. Why on earth would one of the most hardworking and intelligent groups of people in our country suddenly turn out to be work shy and wrong?

Can't believe anyone wouldn't support them.

Draylon - you can't compare that. The police and ambulance service were found to have been culpable in a court of law. They were FACTS, not salacious gossip about someone's personal life. They were to blame. Get a grip.

misstriggs just off the hoof

Improve working conditions. Fund more support staff, and hospital beds so I can spend my time treating patients instead of playing musical beds trying shift people around the hospital due to yet another bed crisis.

Employ enough doctors (though I'm not sure where you'd find them in the current climate) so that we are not doing the job of two or three people all day every day. Then we may get a chance to talk to patients and their families properly, have our breaks, leave on time once in a while and take annual leave. Build in time for training, and stick to it - again needs more doctors.

Have somewhere safe for doctors to sleep if they aren't safe to drive home after a night shift. Might not massively improve attrition rates but most medics know of someone who has died at the wheel post night due to having to do a long commute and shifts over running.

What teeth does the "independent guardian" have? Absolutely none. employed by the trust and the fine is paid by the trust back to themselves. What a joke.

They have my support.

Jeremy Hunt has consistently mis quoted and misinterpreted the original study showing the so called 'weekend effect' despite it having being explained to him again and again even by the reports author.

If he was truly interested in reducing deaths at weekends he would investigate the cause like any sensible person who genuinely wanted to improve a service.

Junior doctors have always worked weekends. Why on earth would one assume that they are the main issue in this equation?
I believe that the Mid Staffs report specifically found that numbers of nursing staff were key to reducing deaths and improving patient care. Why isn't he funding more nurses and encouraging recruitment and retention as a priority?

His arguments are nonsense and not based on any facts just typical political rhetoric. His actions fly in the face of any logic which is making many suspect that achieving a 7 day NHS is not his true motive.

younggirlold- I have no problem with you disagreeing with the JDs but I haven't seen a single sensible argument just lots of angry, inflammatory comments and nasty name calling such as 'hot headed imbeciles', 'pinko ladies'. I think you may have said 'Corbinistas' too. You seem to have a massive chip on your shoulder about JDs.

Sure solicitors in top firms work v hard. I have two very close relatives and a couple of friends who are in this position but they get much, much better recompensed for their time plus lots of perks. I am not suggesting that JD should be paid on a parr but it is disingenuous to keep comparing your role with theirs when there are glaring differences which you have omitted to mention.

Jeremy Hunt is a mendacious piece of shit and I hope this spells his downfall.

I heard on the news to day that the Tories are viewing the Doctors strike much as they viewed the Miners strike back in the seventies. I believe the last working pit closed last year.

Draylon - that's an idiotic interpretation of tonight's news, which was understandably dominated by a landmark legal decision, in which the South Yorkshire Police - favoured by Thatcher's government for their action against the miners - were held responsible for the Hillsborough disaster. If anything it's anti-government and anti-establishment, as it was clearly in establishment interests to blame fans not police. Not blaming the public sector at large, just those who thought they could neglect their responsibilities and lay the blame on others. So find evidence for your media conspiracy against doctors elsewhere. And I have nothing but contempt for your despicable reference to 'weeping Liverpudlians'.

I fully support the junior doctors' strike.

LyndaNotLinda Tue 26-Apr-16 19:56:45 Jeremy Hunt is a mendacious piece of shit and I hope this spells his downfall.

It would seem some people are probably supporting the strike for personal reasons and saturday overtime is just an excuse.

Sorry, urbanfox - don't understand your post.

Hunt is spinning total lies about JDs and this contract to the press. Most of them have been explained in this thread.

Having said that, of course it's personal. He's made it a personal goal to destroy the NHS.

Hi. I am a cardiology consultant surgeon on maternity after having my second sweetling. Due to the doctor's strike, I as asked to cut short my maternity leave to cover it. This pissed me off more than I can say. I had to have an emergency C-section, as I was in a car accident. Luckily, we are all okay. Babba came four and half weeks early, and she was only discharged 3 days ago. Although I care for my patients a great deal, my little ones are far more important. As for them striking from A&E and labour wards it disgusts me beyond belief. How can they claim it's about patient safety now? It isn't - it's about cold cash. When I was a junior doctor, I would never have dreamed of striking, and sometimes I did 60 hour weeks, some shifts without a break. I would take a week off to recover. Medicine is a calling, a vocation. If you can't make the commitment, don't fucking answer the call. What would we do if the nurses went of strike? They have more reasons to do so than the doctors, but they won't, because they know where their loyalties lie, and it isn't their bank balance. A qualified nurse doesn't even earn half a junior doctors' salary. If they don't want to do the hours, why don't they get a nice little cushy nine-to-five job? If a patient dies or a mother loses her baby because of them, then they should be struck off.

LyndaNotLinda, where is the proof he has lied? as opposed to the BMA which has been spinning just as hard.

In this thread I have seen it explained that the new contract could be good in an ideal world and open to abuse if you think that there is a secret plan to screw doctors over. So far I believe we don't live in an ideal world so have to make the best with what we have, I don't believe in the magic money tree. I certainly don't believe any politician is doing anything other than what they think is best for the NHS, even if they are wrong, just as the doctors are.

What I do know is, rightly or wrongly, that today doctors became just another pressure group, trying to get a pay rise. And that makes me sad.

raineras6, yes that's what I always thought doctors did. I am glad you baby is ok.

urbanfox,
We've never asked for a pay rise. I can't say I particularly fancy a pay cut either (who would?!) but there's pay protection for me so I can promise you it's not about my pay for me. I'd probably be much better off financially with a private system too.

raineras6 I'm afraid your post doesn't quite ring true for me but assuming it does, thanks for covering today and really glad your little one has been discharged and you're all ok. 'When I was a junior doctor' other than this year I would have said the same, I would never dream of striking. This contract issue has me and others feel backed into a corner. I HATE striking and my mental health has suffered for it. I just want to go to work and do my job, I don't want it to be politicised.
Medicine is a vocation to an extent. I outperformed most of my friends at school academically and not they outperform me financially. I don't care. As an fy1 I did a 98 hour week every four weeks. I didn't care. But this contract dispute is the final straw for me I'm afraid. I cry myself to sleep after reading doctor-bashing comments online (I should stop reading really...) and feel completely worthless. You say that if you can't take the commitment don't answer the call but that you'd take weeks off to recover from your work? Pot, kettle, black?!

It's taken me so long to write this I'm probably answering posts miles back... Sorry...

If you look at the new pay structure it is blindingly obvious that 60 hour weeks are the ONLY way the trusts are going to be able to offer 7 day NHS.

The pay structure has been designed so that there is no extra pay for normal day time shifts on Saturday and there is no penalty for anyone being askd to work 60 hours. Working a daytime shift on Saturday for no extra pay will immediatey become the norm.

It is really obvious if you look at the pay chart in the FT article today (scroll down half way down the article) that is how NHS trusts will operate this contract.

CantChoose, please don't cry yourself to sleep

Those of us who want to question the BMA's stance in a sensible way are sick of being bullied online too

The smart move by the BMA would be to have 1% payrise but no change to banding, then they would get 99% support

awesome.plus chimes exactly with what I thought when dad was in hospital two months

misstriggs just off the hoof

Improve working conditions. Fund more support staff, and hospital beds so I can spend my time treating patients instead of playing musical beds trying shift people around the hospital due to yet another bed crisis.

Employ enough doctors (though I'm not sure where you'd find them in the current climate) so that we are not doing the job of two or three people all day every day. Then we may get a chance to talk to patients and their families properly, have our breaks, leave on time once in a while and take annual leave. Build in time for training, and stick to it - again needs more doctors.

Have somewhere safe for doctors to sleep if they aren't safe to drive home after a night shift. Might not massively improve attrition rates but most medics know of someone who has died at the wheel post night due to having to do a long commute and shifts over running.

raineras6 like a previous poster, your post doesn't quite gel with any rota patterns I know of. A 71 hour week would have been standard for most juniors working the weekend assuming none of the shifts overran. That's every four weeks. I would have been laughed at if I requested a week off to recover, even there was enough cover to grant me the leave.

I know do 98 hour weeks every five weeks and still have to work the week after. I certainly don't know anyone in cardiothoracics who would claim a 60 hr week as at tough one.

Congratulations on your baby though.

Today 19:30 Draylon

"BBC News.....public sector employees) were seen to be completely to blame for a 27 year ago disaster. And 4 minutes on the doctors' strike. Complete with outraged non-supporter. Followed by more weeping Liverpudlians.....Make of that what you will."

What people 'will make of that' is mainly that you are an ignorant and offensive loud mouth.
Apologise or get off the thread !