Obama, concern for the UK or US?

[ProfessorPreciseaBug]

Listening to Obama, I was struck that his language seemed to be about what is good for the US not what is good for the UK. Certainly the former US treasury secretary interviewed on the Today program was very US centric.

His comment about us going to the back of the queue, (and he did say queue instead of line because he was told to) seemed to be a bit of a threat. Is he out of order?

*claig Sun 24-Apr-16 17:21:33 wrote;

With TTIP next, they are tightening the noose and they won't even let people read and discuss what the bureaucrats and "bought and paid for" are negotiataing, supposedly on our behalf.

Trade deals are normally done in secret & first drafts are almost always a dog's dinner. With TTIP for the first time there has been some information in the public domain & although there could be more it is a start to being more open. It's difficult to judge a trade deal until the negotiations are final & it's clear what the opt outs are.

What evidence do you have to support the belief that a post-Brexit UK would trade more considerately or ethically with developing economies? Or is this just wishful thinking?

I don't have evidence, obviously, as it's impossible to prove something that has not yet happened.

But, what is often forgotten is that the Queen is the Head of our Commonwealth of Nations nod although we, in the UK have been pretty dismissive of that in our preference to be part of the EU, it is something that many of those Commonwealth countries are proud to belong to. Our membership of the Commonwealth is also valued as providing a link between the U.S., the EU and the Commonwealth.

We have close links with many of those countries and many are in the developing world. We could use this opportunity to make trade deals with these members that would boost their economies as well as offering us new markets. If a country's economy is growing through trade and investment, it is less likely that its population will decide to up sticks and migrate to a wealthier country. Trade is preferable to handing out oversea aid that often fails to get to those who actually need it.

'Kate Hooey was driven out'

Kate Hoey.

Hooey is what Cameron speaks.

Turkey will not join, probably ever, certainly don't expect it to happen within my working life. Accession requires unanimity and the current political climate in Europe simply makes that impossible.

choc yes, I think there are rational voices in favour of brexit that are being drowned out right now. My dad who is an original kipper - back when they were a single issue anti-euro party rather than BNP-by-the-sea - feels that his views are no longer being represented. He belongs to a tradition of liberal, small government political thinkers who are against the idea of supra-national authorities on philosophical grounds. Most of his fellow political travellers are concerned about sovereignty not migration (dad worked as an economist in banking; he is in favour of migration) and they would support a Norway solution. And it might be possible to get a leave vote, if the brexit camp could coalesce around a single post-brexit scenario involving EFTA membership - but the migration issue makes that impossible.

Daniel Hannan has been another great campaigner for Brexit for many years.
I disagree with his views, but always enjoy reading them. He just never gets into the nasty "immigrant invasion" mode

Claig My iPad corrects to Cameron's Hooey !

AnnaForbes Sun 24-Apr-16 22:09:00 wrote;

STIDW, I think Turkey's accession is most definitely on the cards. We have the visa-free travel from June

Visa liberalisation means replacing visas which can be easily forged with more secure passports for short term travel in the Schengen area & introducing measures to combat crime eg fingerprinting, Turkey introducing new laws. Turks will still require visas to come to the UK.

BigChocFrenzy

Tough. The offence card failed. The xenophobic card failed. Try sticking go discussing the issue at hand instead of trying to smear other posters who don't agree with your views.

Yes, if Brexit was advocating EFTA that would be quite attractive

With TTIP there has been some information in the public domain

There are links to the texts in the article I posted earlier (link below).

People could read them - if they could be bothered. I'd bet a hefty sum of money that of the people reading this thread only STIDW has done so.

eulawanalysis.blogspot.fr/2016/04/the-nhs-ttip-and-eu-referendum.html

"offence card failed" ? I said I found the repeated remarks about immigration offensive. Statement of fact. I had no aim that could fail.

I never once said "xenophobia" You did.

"Smear" ? I copied and highlighted your comments

'My iPad corrects to Cameron's Hooey !'

I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't have something to do with the wonks in Bremain. That's just the sort of stunt they are masters at.

there are rational voices in favour of brexit that are being drowned out right now

Liam Fox, Priti Patel, John Redwood, David Owen, Daniel Hannan, Theresa Villiers to name but a few.

AnnaForbes Sun 24-Apr-16 18:05:56 wrote;

But we can vote them out. We cannot get rid of the EU Commission, they are unsackable.

EU commission is an executive body like the UK civil servants. Civil servants aren't elected & we can't vote them out either.

I have read the TTIP link.
My understanding is that the EU is negotiating to protect health services of all member states from unfettered TTIP. Also
"the TTIP texts explicitly embody the right to regulate to pursue legitimate public policy objectives. "

The UK could veto the TTIP agreement or have explicit reservations in the text - like other EU countries have for their health services - if our government thinks some TTIP provisions could endanger the nhs.

However, it seems our rightwing Tory government cba to protect the nhs, so has made only limited reservations to date. My suspicion therefore is that they would be happy to use TTIP later as an excuse to move towards a private health service.
Outside the EU, the Tories would be even less likely to negotiate special text for the nhs.

EU commission is an executive body like the UK civil servants. Civil servants aren't elected & we can't vote them out either.

As a former Commissioned Officer in Her Majesty's Civil Service I can assure you that the Civil Service is nothing like the EU Commission.

Civil servants exist to carry out the wishes of Her Majesty's Government, elected by the people. They are apolitical

I think the Tories want TTIP text that would enable them and their rich pals to loot the nhs, but would avoid US firms making all the profit.

Kate Hoey on Question Time. I haven't seen much of her before, but she is doing the rounds at the moment.

(Roughly paraphrasing all of it)

P Ashdown; " you called him a patronising hypocrite"
Kate Hoey; "I did not call him a patronising hypocrite , I called him patronising and hypocritical.

Kate Hoey; "Growth will .......grow

Kate Hoey; "If I hold this glass in my hand it is half full...and if I move it to my left hand it is half empty" (why did she need to move it to another hand? Surely if it was half full it was also half empty irrespective of which hand it was in)

Who would have thought Paddy Ashdown would look like a giant compared to those around him?

How can Liam Fox stay in a government in which he regards as dodgy? A chancellor he has no confidence in.

Outside the EU, the Tories would be even less likely to negotiate special text for the nhs

Err - outside the EU the UK could not be party to a EU / US trade deal.

Leave the EU to avoid TTIP and save the NHS.

Obama has already said no new U.S. trades with the UK post-Brexut as we are at the back of the queue. So Cameron cannot give us a new UK'-only / US TTIP deal that would endanger the NHS and we have escaped the EU / US TTIP deal by BREXIT

WIn win.

I think the Tories want TTIP text that would enable them and their rich pals to loot the nhs, but would avoid US firms making all the profit.

Yes.

That's what Cameron has said he wants TTIP.

He can do that via the EU, but he could never get the Westminster Parliament to agree to a deal that would enable the big corporations to loot the NHS - so get it done by the EU.

That's why big corporations, big banks, hedge funds, Blair, and all the others will their nose in the EU trough want us to stay.

That's why Goldman Sacha is funding the REMSIN campaign.

A few years ago we saw the big bangs as a threat to U.S. - now we are meekly voting in their EU funded REMAin campaign.

SpringingIntoAction Sun 24-Apr-16 22:44:14 wrote;

Civil servants exist to carry out the wishes of Her Majesty's Government, elected by the people.

EU Council (democratically elected heads of all the EU states) sets the EU agenda. Each state nominates a commissioner who is then endorsed by MEPs (directly elected by EU citizens) . The president of the commission is proposed by EU Council & elected by MEPs.

How can Liam Fox stay in a government in which he regards as dodgy? A chancellor he has no confidence in.

Because he'd like to dilute the dodginess and has a better vision for what the government could be?

AnnaForbes Sun 24-Apr-16 22:09:00 wrote;

if the elites want Turkey in the EU as part of their agenda, then Turkey will join.

Which elites? UK foreign policy has been to support Turkey's application under Labour, Tory/LibDems & the current government. Angela Merkel on the other hand has repeatedly opposed Turkey's full membership.

pangurban the brexit side has some thinkers, but Kate Hoey certainly isn't one of them. I don't really understand the strategy of building your media assault around gaff-prone politicians like Johnson and Hoey. There are serious, long-standing eurosceptics who are furious with Boris. The lets-be-Canada-err-maybe-not fiasco, the select committee appearance, and the birther nonsense make him look like he is not taking this seriously.