UK Government concerned too many people could be trying anal sex

[LurkingHusband]

Apparently

The Government is concerned that increasing numbers of young people are trying anal sex, according to an official consultation.

Officials at the Department for Culture, Media and Sport are baffled at the increased popularity of the act despite apparent “research” suggesting it is not pleasurable for women.

The warning is included in a consultation document issued by the Department about plans to further restrict access to online pornography. It argues that young people are trying anal sex as a result of having viewed pornography, and that this is an unwelcome development.

“Many people worry that young people will come to expect their real life sexual experiences to mirror what they or their peers see in pornography, which often features ambiguous depictions of consent, submissive female stereotypes and unrealistic scenarios,” the consultation reads.

“There is also a question about the effect of pornography on ‘unwanted sex’ – for instance more young people are engaging in anal intercourse than ever before despite research which suggests that it is often not seen as a pleasurable activity for young women.

“While the increase in anal sex cannot be attributed directly to pornography consumption, it does feature in a large percentage of mainstream pornography (for example, one content analysis found it featured in 56% of sex scenes).”

The consultation suggests that restricting access to pornography might reduce the numbers of people trying anal sex.

Officials supported their view by citing a 2014 British Medical Journal paper from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine which collated interviews about the practice with 130 16-18 year olds.

That study actually however concluded that “accounts revealed a complex context [of people trying anal sex] with availability of pornography being only one element”.

The Government’s negative view of anal sex recalls opposition to the practice by Margaret Thatcher, who in 1986 watered down an anti-AIDS campaign so as not to acknowledge the act's existence.

According to Cabinet minutes released at the New Year Mrs Thatcher sent a memo asking for a section on “risky sex” to be scrubbed from the campaign because “it could do immense harm if young teenagers were to read it”.

When the newspaper advert warning of the dangers of AIDS went ahead, she said: “I remain against certain parts of this advertisement. Adverts where every young person will read and learn of practices they never knew about will do harm.”

Homosexual anal sex was criminalised under law as “buggery” in England and Wales until 1967.

"Fuck Me In The Ass Cause I Love Jesus", it's a good way to get around the religious doctrine of virginity until marriage..

urbanfox1337 re "Is this a pseudo gay hate thread?" was that an attempt to derail a thread about concerns about our children?

Qwebec re "I thaught the OP was posting joke. I'm totally stunned that this is a serious thread. Are there no more pressing matters than that? Working on the notion of consent, harassement and online security comes to mind..."

Take a look at this Australian article if you wish to. fightthenewdrug.org/sex-before-kissing-15-year-old-girls-dealing-with-boys/

Maybe you notice the link between porn and consent and harassment, the only thing not covered is on line security.

urban are you thinking anal sex is hated by religious people or done by them? I'm confused.

It is strange for me to read posts by those who grew up in a different decade - I can't imagine never having being asked for anal, it's that common to me. Things to think about.

I can't imagine never having being asked for anal, it's that common to me.

And I can't imagine being asked for it! The government seem to have a point here.

Another one who's never been asked for it (late 40s, been with current partner for 20 years). I suffer with prolapses following childbirth and am a member of an online support group for women with similar issues. When I read some of their stories, the utter misery and lifechanging nature of living with faecal incontinence stands out, this is not something I would wish on my worst enemy. Shitting during sex, inability to hold down any job without constsnt access to a toilet, same with travel and days out. As a parent of pre-teens this worries me greatly.

It also worries me that if it wasn't for MN I would be in a state of total ignorance about this issue and there are probably many other parents out there in the same boat.

I don't necessarily think it has all been caused by porn - I'm old enough to remember sex pre internet days and I had heard about it back then, granted it wasn't common but at least 3 of my older friends have been into it for a long time and they don't have any of the issues mentioned in this thread, 1 of them says she prefers it to normal sex. I think it was more common than people are willing to believe.

Times change, people are more open now than they have ever been about anything that used to be taboo - look at the lbgt movement nowadays - it's very open but 30yrs ago it was barely mentioned, anal sex is in the same taboo space in my mind.

The thing I wonder is why do young girls feel the need to give into coercion - why are parents not teaching them to say no and to walk away if they feel pressured? Why are we not teaching girls to ask questions about how their partners feel about these kinds of issues before they put themselves into situations which puts them at risk? Why do we need WA to teach people about coercion and pressure? It should also be part of the school curriculum.

My DD is only 3 and I do wonder what the world will be like when she grows up. I'm not sure I feel sad about it because i can help shape how she sees it and deals with it. Yes no doubt some conversations will be cringe worthy but its my job as a parent to deal with it no matter what - it would be a massive injustice for me not to and I would be letting my DD down. Be strong for your children and have these conversations, that is the only way you will give them the power to deal with it.

I agree that having difficult conversations is necessary and personally as a young girl the strongest thing to do is to have the sense to walk away from a situation that you don't like. My mother told me that if the boy you are with asks you to do something that you don't like or is harmful to you he isn't worth staying with, I've applied that throughout life! I will be teaching my son a healthy level of respect for himself and his future partners.

Girls are brought up to be nice, kind polite not hurt other people's feelings. Put that together with wanting a boyfriend and lack of self confidence and girls are very vulnerable.

To say 'No'' in a sexual context when a boy is being persistent and refusing to listen (to quiet signs of unease or little objections) means she needs to start shouting it. That is unlikely to happen.

A man wanted anal sex with a friend many years ago so he would not need to be careful about preventing pregnancy, but she was completely horrified and said no. He was quite a few years older and had been sleeping around a lot. She did not stay with him long. I never came across it.

Other than that I never heard of it being expected. Not blow jobs either - these were heard of but not at all demanded/expected.
The boys I knew mostly wanted girlfriends and were grateful to have one. It was not that easy to simply go to bed with someone very shortly after meeting them on the whole. The men/boys I am referring to were attractive and educated so it is not that no one liked them.

It was not all rosy though. Some girls were treated like 'slags'. I did hear of acquaintance/date rape - once about a friends sister, another friends mother many years before, but not to the extent that is happening now.

Peggy "The thing I wonder is why do young girls feel the need to give into coercion - why are parents not teaching them to say no and to walk away if they feel pressured? Why are we not teaching girls to ask questions about how their partners feel about these kinds of issues before they put themselves into situations which puts them at risk? Why do we need WA to teach people about coercion and pressure? It should also be part of the school curriculum.*

I totally agree parents should do this and the school should take part but when are you planning on talking to your child about sex. I had a conversation with dd (11) about porn after reading this article.

If you tale a look at this thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/2610074-Anybody-up-for-a-general-chat-about-the-damaging-effects-of-porn-on-young-people

Or read the original article...

fightthenewdrug.org/sex-before-kissing-15-year-old-girls-dealing-with-boys/

You will see some young women are basically forced into sex early. Men 'accidentally' penetrate their girl friends anally. This is not the same kind of thing my friends were talking about when I was a teenager even though anal sex was mentioned.

The UK did a similar study to the Australian one (BMJ in 2014) but although the young people in the UK study said it was because on porn that they wanted to have anal sex (and they knew they would need to persuade, wear down, coerce their partner into it) the survey did not see porn as the main link and talked about it in relation to other things (like peer pressure) which could and I believe are all affected by watching porn!

KindDogsTail I am 51 and I also heard a fair bit about sex, pregnancy scares, under age sex (14 with a much older man) and references to anal sex and porn (which was VERY tame) and I am sure some girls felt pressurized but I do think for many the option to say no was there much more than it is in today's society so I also feel that anal sex was there and sex in general but not to the extent that is happening now.

Peggy I didn't really finish that thought! I meant... but when are you planning on talking to your child about sex. I had a conversation with dd (11) about porn after reading this article - what I meant was I ahdn't thought I would need to talk to her so young, I would have thought high school age! She is still in primary, Year 6. So we need to be prepared and prepared early to prepare our girls and boys early for what they may encounter. It is tough but it is possible.

WhoKnowsWhereTheT1meGoes re "It also worries me that if it wasn't for MN I would be in a state of total ignorance about this issue and there are probably many other parents out there in the same boat."

100% agree, I think we need to share that article and similar ones via Facebook. And talk to our friends who have kids. And talk to our kids.

Italian we already tell DD that if she is somewhere like nursery and if another child's asks her to do something she doesn't want to then she tells them no and to walk away, we tell her not to allow other children to bully her either. She's already very independent but very loving too. For me it's not a single conversation it's about behaviour as they grow up and teaching them what they can and can't do

peggyundercrackers Re "Italian we already tell DD that if she is somewhere like nursery and if another child's asks her to do something she doesn't want to then she tells them no and to walk away.... it's not a single conversation it's about behaviour as they grow up and teaching them what they can and can't do."

Excellent point, it is a series of conversations over a long time. I totally agree.
I just meant I had not explicitly expected to mention porn at this age. I also feel (for me and dd) it is helpful if these conversations just happen, as we are chatting and not a sort of 'now I am going to talk about something very important'! But it is so hard because it is very important.

But I 100% agree.

My dd is also very independent and rarely does as I tell her but I also know she doesn't easily do what other tell her either, it's about building that confidence and independence.

Italian I agree, but I was talking ten years before you so everything was even less extreme. There was definitely no norm of anal sex for man/woman relationship.

One thing I forgot to say was I knew of was older men/young men quite a bit older 20 plus etc seducing underage girls of even thirteen with impunity. I can personally think of some girls I knew that happened to and there was no effective protection for them.

The norm seemed more to have a serious boyfriend from about seventeen and perhaps get married from twenty one onwards (relatively young).

And it s important to remember there was no golden age of innocence or whatever. Look at all the stuff that is coming to light now from the 50s, 60s and 70s etc! Abuse by famous people, by priests, in care homes etc. We need to tackle the threats in our society. I think now young people are wisely warned that older people could be predators but we do know that young people can be too!

Like wise with the gangs of men abusing young girls, some of these have been gangs of Asian men and white girls, which was right to be reported. But we would be wrong to assume that the perpetrators will always be a certain ethnicity! The victims and perpetrators could be any ethnicity, and boys can also be targeted as victims. And, although less common, women can also be aggressors. So as Peggy says ."...tell DD that if she is somewhere like nursery and if another child's asks her to do something she doesn't want to then she tells them no and to walk away."

We need to empower our kids to walk away from things they don't want, how to call for help, access help etc and not to be embarrassed doing so!

I once sat at a table with a friend and a young guy joined us. I mistakenly thought she knew him but she did not, neither of us did. We were at college, it was years ago. We sat chatting and drinking coffee and unbeknownst to me he was trying to touch her up under the table. She did not say anything until he left! She assumed I knew him, I think. I was so sad I had not noticed and she had not rebuked him, moved away etc. If I had known, I would have made a bloody big fuss.

I do think as women we are encouraged not to shout and make a fuss, and we sometimes/usually give guys the benefit of the doubt (at least at first) we think that maybe he did not mean to touch me etc etc. But we need to stop being so nice to random men and move away, shout, make a fuss. We are so worried about embarrassing ourselves or others! I'm 51 and I think that is what I was brought up with.

This is partly what I am talking about....

www.upworthy.com/this-is-how-a-lifetime-of-potentially-dangerous-situations-affects-every-woman1

Agree Italian, there had never been a golden age of innocence.

Today's girls are now used to anal sex being requested/demanded, whereas for my generation it wasn't a mainstream 'thing'.
However, as a young teen through to mid twenties it was just seen as an 'occupational hazard' to be inappropriately touched up, propositioned, and generally sleazed around in everyday life - something which is not tolerated these days.

I completely agree with this Italian I was brought up like this too.
I do think as women we are encouraged not to shout and make a fuss, and we sometimes/usually give guys the benefit of the doubt (at least at first) we think that maybe he did not mean to touch me etc etc. But we need to stop being so nice to random men and move away, shout, make a fuss. We are so worried about embarrassing ourselves or others! I'm 51 and I think that is what I was brought up with.

As to there never having been some golden age of innocence and there having been all the abuse that was going secretly, that is completely true.

But in my opinion, when I was young, there was no way the majority of very young children were being made to grow up too fast through porn, advertisements and a general expectation for them to be sexual before they are ready the way they are now. Most children of my generation, the majority, the ones that were not being abused by a priest or a relative, were much more innocent (in the usual sense of the word of simply not knowing) than children are now.

The other week in the Times or a newspaper like it there was a report that a young boy, about eleven assaulted his very much younger sibling, trying anal sex. He said to his mother, that that's what you do mum.

Wow, I always like being agreed with!

I'm 51. I agree completely with Kinddogs.

They are missing the point.

The issue isn't anal sex - the issue is the difference between consensual and coercive practises.

Coercion seems to be an integral part of many young peoples experiences around sex - be it anal sex or other. The research paper by the BMJ showed that young men derived a certain amount of kudos among their friends by having anal sex with women. There was very little value placed on their partners wishes - and participants talked about persuading/coercing their partners to have anal sex as if it were a normal part of sex.

This men pushing/woman resisting dynamic long pre-dates the internet.

So what is needed is good quality sex education where these coercive practises are discussed and challenged - leading to greater emphasis on consensual practises leading to greater mutuality, where partners take into account each others needs and desires.

I was summarising this excellent blog on the issue.

theconversation.com/the-government-cited-my-research-in-its-campaign-against-porn-and-anal-sex-heres-why-i-disagree-57826

MrsFrisby
The issue isn't anal sex - the issue is the difference between consensual and coercive practises.

I think this is right. The thing is that if young girls are being made to think this is the norm (alongside having sexual activity too young in the first place, especially when there has not been time to form a relationship) just as in the lemmings over the cliff principle, they will go along with it. The porn in itself, and society (advertisements, films, 'hot' clothes for little girls) is acting like a sort of coercion/grooming all round too.

As seems clear, boys are getting the idea to want anal sex from the internet.
They are possibly learning coercive/rapist like 'No means yes' behaviour from the internet. So even of coercion pre-dates the internet ot seems to be getting worse.
And very young rapists (primary school children even) seem to be cropping up more frequently.

When I was young most ordinary young men were not trying to have anal sex with girls. No boy I ever knew would go out with a girl and even expect a blow job either.
Nothing but kissing was expected straight away.
Probably holding hands had more excitement and thrill in some cases for young people, especially girls, than some of the encounters now.

How unromantic and demeaning having someone, probably inept in the first place, sticking his in your bottom. How unromantic - gagging and nearly being sick with someone's when you have no other previous relationship with him, rather than as a truly consensual act of care and love coming from increasing emotional intimacy. If this is what girls are getting with their first experiences they are missing out in my opinion.

I do think this is true MrsFrisby
This men pushing/woman resisting dynamic long pre-dates the internet.

So what is needed is good quality sex education where these coercive practices are discussed and challenged - leading to greater emphasis on consensual practises leading to greater mutuality, where partners take into account each others needs and desires. I agree.

I also think sex education needs to be about relationship education rather than just sex:

How do you get to know someone?

How do you know if you care about each other's well being?

How do you know if someone is coercing you by subtly tricking/manipulating you?

How do you stand up for what you really want or believe in the face of someone telling you otherwise?

How to not to presume that because A, B and C are doing something that makes it all right for you?

What responsibilities do two people have towards each other?

Also I think there needs to be compulsory consent (anti-rape) lessons in all schools and as well as all universities.(Some (all?) universities started last year.

Thanks for the link MrsFrisby.

If anyone here has not seen this thread
Anybody up for a general chat about the damaging effects of porn on young people ?

Gio posted some articles she had written after a lot of research.

I agree strongly we need better education and awareness for young people.

But MrsFrisbyMouse I am afraid I have to disagree strongly with that blog... "On the first assumption, there is no clear link between access to pornography and anal sex among young people – something pointed out in my paper published in the BMJ Open journal in 2014."

There is a clear link between anal sex and pornography and coercive sex and pornography and I would also say between coercion and anal sex as girls are less likely to want something stuck up their bottom. I expect boys are quite unlikely to want something stuck up their bottom too but luckily this doesn't usually (excuse the pun) come up for them!

The BMJ study mentioned the link between pornography and anal sex but chose for some reason, to ignore the fact that the young people themselves made a clear link between anal sex and pornography. I have no idea why they did not take the young people's views into account. The reasons they gave about peer pressure etc can also stem from use of pornography, perhaps viewed by males alongside other males.

Have you read the BMJ study?