UK Government concerned too many people could be trying anal sex

[LurkingHusband]

Apparently

The Government is concerned that increasing numbers of young people are trying anal sex, according to an official consultation.

Officials at the Department for Culture, Media and Sport are baffled at the increased popularity of the act despite apparent “research” suggesting it is not pleasurable for women.

The warning is included in a consultation document issued by the Department about plans to further restrict access to online pornography. It argues that young people are trying anal sex as a result of having viewed pornography, and that this is an unwelcome development.

“Many people worry that young people will come to expect their real life sexual experiences to mirror what they or their peers see in pornography, which often features ambiguous depictions of consent, submissive female stereotypes and unrealistic scenarios,” the consultation reads.

“There is also a question about the effect of pornography on ‘unwanted sex’ – for instance more young people are engaging in anal intercourse than ever before despite research which suggests that it is often not seen as a pleasurable activity for young women.

“While the increase in anal sex cannot be attributed directly to pornography consumption, it does feature in a large percentage of mainstream pornography (for example, one content analysis found it featured in 56% of sex scenes).”

The consultation suggests that restricting access to pornography might reduce the numbers of people trying anal sex.

Officials supported their view by citing a 2014 British Medical Journal paper from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine which collated interviews about the practice with 130 16-18 year olds.

That study actually however concluded that “accounts revealed a complex context [of people trying anal sex] with availability of pornography being only one element”.

The Government’s negative view of anal sex recalls opposition to the practice by Margaret Thatcher, who in 1986 watered down an anti-AIDS campaign so as not to acknowledge the act's existence.

According to Cabinet minutes released at the New Year Mrs Thatcher sent a memo asking for a section on “risky sex” to be scrubbed from the campaign because “it could do immense harm if young teenagers were to read it”.

When the newspaper advert warning of the dangers of AIDS went ahead, she said: “I remain against certain parts of this advertisement. Adverts where every young person will read and learn of practices they never knew about will do harm.”

Homosexual anal sex was criminalised under law as “buggery” in England and Wales until 1967.

[Italiangreyhound]

We must empower them to know this is not normal. Even sit coms like 'Friends' treated porn as normal.

[Aussiemum78]

It worries me that young teens feel that if you aren't into these things you are a prude. It feels like fairly extreme things are expected of inexperienced children because of porn.

I want my dd to experience sex when she feels ready with a caring partner and not feel like anal/threesomes/home videos etc are something she should do at 14 or be left out.

[KindDogsTail]

Thanks Italian for the details from the BJM study.

[KindDogsTail]

I didn't see Kingsman, Inbetweeners or The Good Wife.

Male TV & film directors and writers push their own fantasies and ideas on to everyone and no one seems to question it. Wre those writers all male, I wonder?

Think of the contrast to Lost in Translation by Sophia Coppola with all its delicacy and depth and the fact that they don't even sleep together after all that happened between them.

At least in Marcella (by the Scandinavian male writer of The Bridge for anyone who didn't know), last week we saw normal sex look very passionate in the scene where Marcella got back with with her husband for a moment, and in the other Scandinavian thrillers (The Bridge, The Killings) the female heroes, even Saga who is shocking for being so forthright, seem to be looking for something right for themselves.

That's perhaps a reflection of the Scandinavian way of thinking which I think Ophelia mentioned as being different on the other thread.

[Italiangreyhound]

Yes, it was jarring when watching The Good Wife that anal sex was kind of used as a shocker in the court room when questioning a witness.. 'What were you doing?' Reply 'Anal.'

Now when I hear this I just want to shout 'Fuck off' at the TV set!

I hope young women can learn to say no, just because something is expected it won't be delivered. The message about not accepting pestering to produce nude pictures is beginning to get through, I think that anal sex should be the same thing, you don't need to give in to 'pester power' in fact how utterly demeaning to all for a young man to spend his time pestering a girl to do what she doesn't want to do, and how utterly demeaning for her to give in.

In case anyone doubts that this is what the BMJ study found....

"Key themes emerged from our interviews that help
explain why the practice continued despite narratives of
women’s reluctance, expectations of pain for women and
apparent lack of pleasure for women and men: competition
between men;"


A boy talks about "I think that the boy enjoys it. I think it’s definitely the boy that pushes for it from watching porn and stuff, they wanna try it. The girl is scared and thinks it’s weird, and then they try it because the boyfriend wants them to."


It said "Interviewees frequently cite pornography as the
‘explanation’


"It seems that anal sex happens in a context characterised
by at least five specific features linked with the key
explanatory themes described above:
First, some men’s narratives suggested that mutuality
and consent for anal sex were not always a priority for
them. Interviewees often spoke casually about penetration
where women were likely to be hurt or coerced

Second, women being badgered for anal sex appears to
be considered normal.

Third, the commonly circulating ideas that ‘everyone’
enjoys it, and that women who do not are either flawed
or simply keeping their enjoyment secret, help support
the erroneous idea that a man pushing for anal sex is
simply ‘persuading’ his partner to do something that
‘most girls would like’.

Fourth, anal sex today appears to be a marker of
(hetero)sexual achievement or experience, particularly
for men.
Fifth, many men do not express concern about possible
pain for women, viewing it as inevitable.

[KindDogsTail]

I agree Mishaps.
Once on the television I saw a documentary about making a porn film and the girl was having to have enemas before hand in preparation.
So behind the scenes the viewers saw her sitting on the lavatory. What romance, what passion.

[Mishaps]

The crux of the matter, as others have said, is that girls in particular feel that they should subject themselves to acts that are not pleasurable to them - it is that pressure that I am concerned about. Sex between humans is supposed to be an act concerned with mutual pleasure.

At the risk of sounding judgmental or prejudiced, physically I am convinced that this exit structure should not be regarded as an entrance - and that doing so is likely to cause long term health problems.

Personally, as a sufferer from thrombosed piles, this is seriously not a portal of entry.

[MangoMoon]

Agree about Kingsmen.
I thought it was a really good film, and the last scene made me

[SinisterBumFacedCat]

That was one of the many reasons I hated the last scene in Kingsman, making it out to be some sort of massive reward for a man, and I agree about the endless references in the Inbetweeners.That was one of the many reasons I hated the last scene in Kingsman, making it out to be some sort of massive reward for a man

Yes I was shocked by this, also seemed to suggest it was normal to have anal sex as your first sexual experience with a new partner.

[Italiangreyhound]

Maybe we need to start investing in things that make the situation better for women and girls. Share this link, please.

www.ijreview.com/2015/10/458511-if-you-see-a-woman-carrying-this-coin-sized-item-heres-what-it-means/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=owned&utm_campaign=morning-newsletter

Please watch the video at the bottom, it's super cool. There are devices to help us and there organisations working to increase empathy and decrease violence.

So don't give up hope!

[Italiangreyhound]

Just read those two articles, very useful information. But so sad, so very sad.

[KindDogsTail]

Italian is right.
This is a quote from one of the articles:
Imagine a curious 10-year-old child typing “porn” into a search engine for the first time. Perhaps he or she has an idea of sex: some kissing, breasts, naked flesh. Here are some examples of what they could find with just a few clicks of the mouse: a man using a woman so roughly for oral sex she gags and vomits, a woman being penetrated by three men, a man choking a woman as he pulls her hair, spits on her and slaps her. This is the world of “gonzo” porn - no dodgy script just straight into brutalised sex, where anal, not vaginal, intercourse is the norm.

“It didn’t matter who was lying beneath him, his eyes were on the screen mimicking what he was seeing. He was very violent with anal sex, I would cry and ask him to stop, but because that was what the women in the films were doing, he wouldn’t accept me saying ‘no’ as meaning ‘no’. He thought it was all part of the game, he thought he was doing his acting while I was doing the girls’ acting.”

[KindDogsTail]

about pornography

[KindDogsTail]

This is the link Gio posted on the other thread about pronographt. There are two articles in it.
www.contributoria.com/reader/4dfe3664fb996911a4d581cdf147e4f0/

By mistake I just deleted a long thread with quotes from the articles. But I can tell you after reading it that most people simply would not be able to believe the extent its destructive effects on today's children and young people.

[Italiangreyhound]

The fact women have been coerced and oppressed for millennium doesn't mean that men aren't constantly thinking up new ways to coerce and oppress them!

[Italiangreyhound]

I agree strongly we need better education and awareness for young people.

But MrsFrisbyMouse I am afraid I have to disagree strongly with that blog... "On the first assumption, there is no clear link between access to pornography and anal sex among young people – something pointed out in my paper published in the BMJ Open journal in 2014."

There is a clear link between anal sex and pornography and coercive sex and pornography and I would also say between coercion and anal sex as girls are less likely to want something stuck up their bottom. I expect boys are quite unlikely to want something stuck up their bottom too but luckily this doesn't usually (excuse the pun) come up for them!

The BMJ study mentioned the link between pornography and anal sex but chose for some reason, to ignore the fact that the young people themselves made a clear link between anal sex and pornography. I have no idea why they did not take the young people's views into account. The reasons they gave about peer pressure etc can also stem from use of pornography, perhaps viewed by males alongside other males.

Have you read the BMJ study?

[KindDogsTail]

If anyone here has not seen this thread
Anybody up for a general chat about the damaging effects of porn on young people ?

Gio posted some articles she had written after a lot of research.

[KindDogsTail]

MrsFrisby
The issue isn't anal sex - the issue is the difference between consensual and coercive practises.

I think this is right. The thing is that if young girls are being made to think this is the norm (alongside having sexual activity too young in the first place, especially when there has not been time to form a relationship) just as in the lemmings over the cliff principle, they will go along with it. The porn in itself, and society (advertisements, films, 'hot' clothes for little girls) is acting like a sort of coercion/grooming all round too.

As seems clear, boys are getting the idea to want anal sex from the internet.
They are possibly learning coercive/rapist like 'No means yes' behaviour from the internet. So even of coercion pre-dates the internet ot seems to be getting worse.
And very young rapists (primary school children even) seem to be cropping up more frequently.

When I was young most ordinary young men were not trying to have anal sex with girls. No boy I ever knew would go out with a girl and even expect a blow job either.
Nothing but kissing was expected straight away.
Probably holding hands had more excitement and thrill in some cases for young people, especially girls, than some of the encounters now.

How unromantic and demeaning having someone, probably inept in the first place, sticking his in your bottom. How unromantic - gagging and nearly being sick with someone's when you have no other previous relationship with him, rather than as a truly consensual act of care and love coming from increasing emotional intimacy. If this is what girls are getting with their first experiences they are missing out in my opinion.

I do think this is true MrsFrisby
This men pushing/woman resisting dynamic long pre-dates the internet.

So what is needed is good quality sex education where these coercive practices are discussed and challenged - leading to greater emphasis on consensual practises leading to greater mutuality, where partners take into account each others needs and desires. I agree.

I also think sex education needs to be about relationship education rather than just sex:

How do you get to know someone?

How do you know if you care about each other's well being?

How do you know if someone is coercing you by subtly tricking/manipulating you?

How do you stand up for what you really want or believe in the face of someone telling you otherwise?

How to not to presume that because A, B and C are doing something that makes it all right for you?

What responsibilities do two people have towards each other?

Also I think there needs to be compulsory consent (anti-rape) lessons in all schools and as well as all universities.(Some (all?) universities started last year.

Thanks for the link MrsFrisby.

[MrsFrisbyMouse]

I was summarising this excellent blog on the issue.

//theconversation.com/the-government-cited-my-research-in-its-campaign-against-porn-and-anal-sex-heres-why-i-disagree-57826

[MrsFrisbyMouse]

They are missing the point.

The issue isn't anal sex - the issue is the difference between consensual and coercive practises.

Coercion seems to be an integral part of many young peoples experiences around sex - be it anal sex or other. The research paper by the BMJ showed that young men derived a certain amount of kudos among their friends by having anal sex with women. There was very little value placed on their partners wishes - and participants talked about persuading/coercing their partners to have anal sex as if it were a normal part of sex.

This men pushing/woman resisting dynamic long pre-dates the internet.

So what is needed is good quality sex education where these coercive practises are discussed and challenged - leading to greater emphasis on consensual practises leading to greater mutuality, where partners take into account each others needs and desires.

[Itisbetternow]

I'm 51. I agree completely with Kinddogs.

[Italiangreyhound]

Wow, I always like being agreed with!

[KindDogsTail]

I completely agree with this Italian I was brought up like this too.
I do think as women we are encouraged not to shout and make a fuss, and we sometimes/usually give guys the benefit of the doubt (at least at first) we think that maybe he did not mean to touch me etc etc. But we need to stop being so nice to random men and move away, shout, make a fuss. We are so worried about embarrassing ourselves or others! I'm 51 and I think that is what I was brought up with.

As to there never having been some golden age of innocence and there having been all the abuse that was going secretly, that is completely true.

But in my opinion, when I was young, there was no way the majority of very young children were being made to grow up too fast through porn, advertisements and a general expectation for them to be sexual before they are ready the way they are now. Most children of my generation, the majority, the ones that were not being abused by a priest or a relative, were much more innocent (in the usual sense of the word of simply not knowing) than children are now.

The other week in the Times or a newspaper like it there was a report that a young boy, about eleven assaulted his very much younger sibling, trying anal sex. He said to his mother, that that's what you do mum.

[MrsBoDuke]

Agree Italian, there had never been a golden age of innocence.

Today's girls are now used to anal sex being requested/demanded, whereas for my generation it wasn't a mainstream 'thing'.
However, as a young teen through to mid twenties it was just seen as an 'occupational hazard' to be inappropriately touched up, propositioned, and generally sleazed around in everyday life - something which is not tolerated these days.

[Italiangreyhound]

This is partly what I am talking about....

www.upworthy.com/this-is-how-a-lifetime-of-potentially-dangerous-situations-affects-every-woman1