UK woman convicted of abortion

[Veterinari]

Full story here www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/woman-given-suspended-sentence-for-having-abortion-in-the-uk-a6968676.html

Very sad. Is there a will in NI to update legislation on this issue? As it stands everyone loses

No woman in the UK had the 'right' to an abortion. the 1967 Abortion Act created loopholes in the existing 1861 Offences Again the Person Act, enabling women to access abortion in particular circumstances with the permission of two doctors etc.

This letter from the BPAS in today's Guardian explains it.

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/07/there-is-no-right-to-abortion-for-any-woman-in-the-uk

Sorry - has the right to abortion, not 'had'

But she has the right to decide whether to continue with a pregnancy. No one else can make that decision for her.

Women have a right to continue a pregnancy in NI too.

My point is that it's not really accurate to portray the UK, except NI, in some sort of progressive, 'abortion is simple for any pregnant woman to procure' light.

It's much more likely to me that she simply didn't want this particular baby to die, and was willing, and yes even happy, to offer a home.

Gone, how was she achieving that by running to the police a week later? And by repeatedly telling lies?

And would you care to answer to answer the questions about how you reconcile your defence of the flatmates' consciences with the fact that those consciences apparently permitted them to lie repeatedly and publicly about another person?

Women have a right to continue a pregnancy in NI too.

That's not what I posted, christina. I said whether to continue with a pregnancy. But you know that because you read my post.

If you read earlier posts from people who live in NI it's not just the regressive reproductive rights laws that are the problem.

Christina had I still lived in London I could've rung up a bpas clinic, made an appointment. Attended the appointment, probably with my dp. Recovered and moved on. That's relatively simple.

When I found out I was pregnant in NI I panicked. Rang Marie Stopes, found out the cost was too prohibitive. Cried on the phone to them. Googled frantically, found BPAS which would be slightly cheaper even with flights and travel. Tried to figure out how I could make up the money. Googled a bit more, found Women on web and tried to weigh up whether I could send off for pills or whether I should travel. Realised after much anxiety, travelling was a better option. Tried to figure out what I could sell or do without to make up the money. Wondered if I could still afford Christmas. Housesat for my friends, kids in tow, so I could eat their food and use their utilities and save a bit more. Became very depressed and left all childcare and housework to my DP. Tried to make it through Christmas with a big, fake smile.

Eventually came across ASN who offered to cover much of the cost of the procedure and guided me through booking flights etc. Cried again on the phone. Finally, booked procedure with BPAS in Merseyside.

That's so awful - I wonder if there's any fundraising going on for legal costs for this latest case?

I'm not under-estimating the damage done to women and their families by the situation in NI. I hope that my post didn't come across like that because it certainly wasn't my intention.

Women in the UK do not have an unrestricted right to decide whether to continue a pregnancy or not. Most of us will have options as Jacob describes above. This isn't true of women who don't realise that they're pregnant until 24 weeks or who are scared to ask for help until the pregnancy is very obvious ie past 24 weeks for example.

A woman from Durham (Natalie Towers) was given a custodial sentence for aborting her own pregnancy a few months ago.

It's a contentious issue the unborn's right to life and the circumstances of the termination

Which law enshrines the right to life of a 10 week old foetus, omac?

It's a contentious issue the unborn's right to life and the circumstances of the termination

No. No its not.

There is no right to life.

Thankfully given the implications of such a right.

The 'contentious issues' are why in the 21st century women are still denied autonomy over their own bodies and why on earth a private medical matter like this come under the jurisdiction of the CJS, I would say.

With a different role of the dice, any one of us could have found ourselves in he situation these women are in. Or our sister, our friend or our daughter could.

I agree Christina

I believe that a ten week old foetus does have a right to life, and they are human and deserving of our protection in society, every bit as much as a wanted baby is precious and everything will be done to help them, long before 24 weeks gestation and then onwards. The value of that tiny form is not determined by how much value someone else places upon it; the value is inherent. We don't get too make that choice.

I think there are ethical grey areas certainly, most notably when a woman's own right to choose whether or not to have intercourse has been violated.

So should we hold an inquest every time a woman miscarries, gone?

Any chance of answering that question about how you reconcile your defence of the flatmates' consciences with the fact that those consciences apparently permitted them to lie repeatedly and publicly about another person?

A little bit of good news and positivity:

The #CoverHerCosts campaign combined with donations to ASN has raised over 10K. May it go a long way and help many.

Indeed, Jacob. Some good has come of these women having their personal trauma made into international news.

gone. If you believe that a 10 week old foetus has a right to life 'inherently' (whatever that means) then that's absolutely fine. Don't have an abortion, ever, under any circumstances. No-one on this thread would dream of forcing you to.

In the meantime, have the decency to extend the same right to make reproductive choices to other women. They may not be your choices, but it's not your life that they're living.

What would you do in this scenario, gone?

I hope the young girls flatmates feel some shame one day for what they have put her through by contacting the Police. Imagine doing that when your friend needed compassion and support.

^

This, absolutely. I just can't get my head around it.

And OneFlewOvertheDodo'sNest - I am Irish. The vast majority of people I know of my age would be very adamantly pro-life and will be campaigning vociferously to repeal the 8th amendment in the Irish constitution which prohibits abortion in the South. I am sorry you had shit friends when you were seeking an abortion.

The 'only in cases of rape and incest' idea is illogical to me. Either a woman has the right to say what happens to her own body, including whether to give birth, or not. If it is believed that an embryo or foetus has a right to life, then the origin of that life is surely irrelevant. If being forced to have intercourse is a 'grey area', why? I don't think that a man who becomes a father having been sexually assaulted by a woman has a right to say that an abortion should take place, because the decision whether to have an abortion should belong to the person who has to be pregnant and give birth, whether they are nice, nasty, criminal, innocent or a total psychopath, and in particular whether they perform grief or look sad about the decision or not. Exceptions may occur where the pregnant woman does not have the capacity to make those decisions, but those are very rare and are rightly dealt with individually in the courts.