Every now and then I remember exactly why I dislike Tony Blair so much

[Caligula]

Like now, when he can't bring himself to comment on Saddam Hussein's execution.

Even Dubya has commented on it, FGS. What is the matter with that pusillanimous creep, our PM? Is he really so afraid of offending someone by saying the wrong thing? Why can't he comment?

Yuk yuk yuk yuk yuk, he's horrid.

There, feel a bit better now I've got that off my chest.

roskva, a whole Act of Parliament was enacted to deal with that bloke protesting about Irag in Parliament Square. And as Suzy says, it has been used to give a criminal record to someone reading out the names of the dead from the Iraq war. And it has also been used (or something similar has) to criminalise the wearing of t-shirts bearing the slogan' Bollocks to Blair'.

Actually the only reason I don't have a BtoB is that I wouldn't know where to wear it - the school run? Pre-school? In bed? 'Mummy, what does it day on your t-shirt?' maybe not.)

shit, i mean 1984 (wrote it '48 and flipped the digits)

Bloody true rosk - may be there will be a US led coup here to make sure whoever comes after TB is equally lap doggish !

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ooh..am new to these parts,,,shall we take a book on it?
my net has been dodgy already..er, I say:
gone by the morning..long live free spee......

but I really don't think they foresaw how divided Iraq would become and how difficult it would be to try and maintain control once Saddam was gone (with all the different factions, rebel groups etc.). I think they were naive (in this respect) and even reading some of the leaked memos (that were recently in the papers), it is clear that the intelligence was just not there.

I think Bush would have gone to war whether we went with him or not. Bush was practically gagging for it and don't forget, the only party who didn't support the war in this country was the Lib Dems so the Tories would have gone with Bush as well.

Orwell was also fairly prescient of the current situation when he wrote Animal Farm - must dig that out and re-read it, too. Seem to remember the pigs ending up in charge because the other animals were too lazy/stupid/apathetic to bother doing anything about it.

should have said only 'main' party (know there were other independents and smaller parties who didn't want the war as well)

Ah yes, all animals are equal but some are more equal than others.

Shit.

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Fox, the intelligence certainly wasn't there! Not in the thick skulls of the glory seeking self-deluding decision makers, anyway. As to what spies had or had not found out, you can probably interpret a satellite photo to support whatever your current pet theory is (isn't that what people arguing about life on Mars do, too?)

suzy - my reading of Orwel's work was that 1984 and Animal Farm were very much anti-communist, anti-USSR, although he would of course have been generally against totalitarian govts, including any such tendancies here in the UK post-war

Saddam hanging deplorable - Brown

animal farm - that was about soviets, and pigs became like the farmers..loved it!

fox - slightly naive me thinks..tories backed war when presented to parliament as:
weapons of mass destruction
can strike in 45 mins (cyprus)

dont you remember all the dodgy dossier stuff; they prepared pr version of war documents to persuade parliament we had to go; their own lawyers incl. tb's top mate said (initially) not lawful position blah blah blah

and of course, the undisclosed:
have already agreed to do this anyway..get the embeds in NOW..

there were no insurgents as such awaiting in iraq; if our security had no idea of situation then they should be sacked.
infact most of america thought they were invading iraq because of 9/11 - how scary is that?

its nice to see the good in people but wake up, this is murder of a nation and we re elected it shameful

I am a cynic or do a sense a man deliberately distancing himself from TB, doing what the public think is right to make himself more likeable, and trying to pave the way to no. 10? Ugggghhhh, GB gives me the creeps.

yes tis true Roskva - in fact, had not really thought much about how Orwellian this whole thing is (though 1984 is one of my fave books!) but there was definitely an attempt to make us (the public) feel that war was justified - also, an attempt by Blair/Bush to convince themselves (and their cabinet) that going to war was the correct decision and this was all done AFTER that decision had been made (it seems).

suzy, our intelligence in that region was useless (and I don't mean only Iraq). Just look how after the July 7th bombings, suddenly there were loads of recruitment drives for people who could speak Arabic. We just didn't have as much information as we should have done (and nor did the Americans).

roskva..they all give me the creeps really, big useless gordon, bulldog & bee face reid..yuk giving me the horrors bigtime..shudder

fox..
i'd say for 7/7 iraq, palestine, afganistan was inspiration and motivation for this bombing..

muslims live in a country with a foreign policy to kill other muslims..shouldn't have taken MI5 long to work out there would be problems.
it was symptom of our previous actions really, needn't have happened imo ..if we were minding our own beeswax iykwim

Yes, useless intelligence and some of it shamelessly plagarised from an Arab PhD student (I heard the good, relevant bits were from the PhD thesis and the crap bits were from the CIA !)

so foxinsocks, that means that the politicians don't represent us, even the people who voted for tony etc generally/overwhelmingly didn't want to go to war?

actually, what really grates me is Guatanamo Bay and those CIA torture flights that went through Europe. In fact, Guananamo is coming up to its 5th anniversary next week. Detention without trial - just awful. And trying to insist the prisoners were not subject to the Geneva convention - just unspeakable.

Well, we could send 2 of them back to Scotland by insisting that mps with constituencies in Scotland don't get to meddle with the affairs of England and Wales. Don't know what to do about Prezza, though. Anyway, I still don't know what his job is these days. Can't help but wonder what juicy scandal he knows about TB that would explain TB's insistance that he keep his fat salary, grace & favour homes, and amazing pension, that are all funded by us.

no, what I meant was that although he/the government may not represent the country's opinion on a specific subject, he was voted in democratically so whether we like it or not, he is out there representing us!

Guantanamo Bay and rendition flights - not so different from Gulags, really. And the US doesn't even have official political relations with Cuba...