They have executed Saddam Hussein

[mummydear]

He's dead

here

Now lets see what happens .

i dont have a commitment to killing people!! In fact i think SH would have suffered more if he WASNT killed, we could all take turns to torture and beat him daily, as he did to thousands..

my thoughts as well, Pann. (are you deeppann, by the way?)
We know that the US uses propaganda, if SH did those things, why did they choose to indict him for the relatively mundane murder of 148 people instead?

My thoughts are mixed about this whole thing. It isnt popular to say now - but Saddam Hussain did a lot of good things in Iraq (clean water supply, stopped religious fundamentalism and promoted women's rights), as well as a lot of bad things (murder of people who were against him, stupid wars etc).

My personal preference would be to keep him locked up and force him to confront his crimes. But if he had murdered a member of my family, I would probably want to shoot him myself.

Have been away for a few days and just seen this thread. Just clicked on the link and thought I would watch. Only saw as far as them putting on the scarf and couldn't watch anymore. Curiosity I guess.

am I the only person who found it a bit sick, that there was so much coverage of SH's death, and one sentence half way down the bbc report saying that 70 people died following the execution?

my muslim contacts think he is no loss, but it is out of order that he was executed at Eid btw.

err...it is a very good job that someone video'd it on their phone as this is the unexpurgated version which shows that saddam was taunted prior to his death.

his martyrdom is assured.

it is almost funny and certainly farcical that bush and blair have managed to make such an evil man into a sypathetic figure, someone that died with dignity, choosing not to be hooded and not responding to the taunts and jibes of his enemies.

the fact that he died on eid is just outrageous and due in large part to the fact that bush wanted it done before the end of the year. idiot.

frenchie - you're more OTT than the Old Testament!! You are actually offering to torture someone now? Wow. tbh, I am doubting if you have thought through the consequences of what you are saying. (sorry if that sounds pompous and judgemental.) As ALoha reminded this thread yesterday, from Ghandi, Eye for an eye, and the world becomes blind.

Yes, if victims and families of victims decided the outcomes in the justice system we would be in utter chaos. That is why we have a separation of such issues, and a professional criminal justice system, as flawed as it is. And why we have gun control, so you don't blow away the next person who is inconsiderate to you on the roads!!

WWJD - yes hi, tis me. DeepPannCrispand Even was the festive name. No need to change yours then was there?

oh...I was thinking pizza

sophable. You are so right, in my humble opinion.

As nasty and as murderous as he was, a small part of me DID have some admiration for his courage and fortitude at the very end.

Not quite seeing the point of those noting he expressed no remorse.

WWJD - you were right!

Q. How does Good King Wenslelasc like his pizzas?

A. Deep (P)and Crisp and Even!!!

The Meaning of Saddam Hussein

Article in CounterPunch today

this

An article of the history of Hussein - Top Ten Ways the US Enabled Saddam Hussein

this

I would like to say that while I would never, ever, dream of condemning anyone who has suffered for feeling angry and even murderous to the person who has killed someone they loved, it isn't automatic that people feel like this. There have been numerous examples in the last year of quite ordinary people who have suffered huge losses - of partners and children - and have been kidnapped and tortured, who have not only not felt like this, but have actually forgiven the perpetrators and even expressed some sympathy for them. I'm not that nice, and suspect I might feel dreadful surges of white hot rage, but I hope I would still not suffer a complete reversal of my principles and start wishing for a death penalty.

this in the guardian today sums it up for me

Thanks for the post. An excellent article.

yes Aloha, I too imagine that having such depths of forgiveness may be too much for me at such a dreadful time. But even imagining that time, I am pretty sure I would still not sign up to the 'let's kill them' brigade.

I too am against the death penalty.As a mum i can say that if it were my son although i wouldnt condone what he had done, i would not want him put to death.How many of you who are for the death penalty, even if their son committed terrible crimes would want them to be put to death ? Yes he was a very evil man but lawful killing is equal to unlawful killing imo.Does it make it right just because the law is on the hangmans side? Killing is still killing.A lot of Mums are grieving because their sons have not come back from the war,bush and blair have blood on their hands too are they to be hanged ?

[quote]By Blossomgoodwill on Sat 30-Dec-06 10:44:50
I am all in favour of the death penalty and think we should have it here, always have done.
A life for a life. I have no sympathy at all for someone who has killed so many people.[/quote]
__

I agree. I too am for the death penalty, if the trial is fair.

Was it fair here?

And may I request the heads of Bush, Blair, Cheney, Perle, Rumsfeld, et al for the same crime.

It is true that Amnesty, amongst others, have condemned the process of the trial - for things such as using anonymous witnesses, the defence not knowing their identities etc.

But the point is perhaps not that there is doubt that Saddam killed thousands of Kurds and other Iraqi citizens, but that the flawed process of the trial, with it's flawed outcome (and I do see hanging as the flawed outcome of any trial) was a sordid episode. The end of the Saddam era should have brought peace and self-determination to the citizens a united Iraq. Instead the war brought death, division, an flawed trial and an uncivilized end: a far cry from the democracy held up as the battle standard by the Invaders.

And there points the guilt to other parties...Bush, Blair, et all.

peacedove, you omitted to include that loathsome Rice creature in your hit-list. Not that I am in favour of the death penalty, which I regard as disgraceful renegade savagery - but if you are going to compile a list of candidates for the putative chop, you can't leave out 'Condy'

peacedove - life for a life, eye for an eye and all of that.

think on times that you have behaved badly or carelessly toward others. Is it better to stop that 'hurt' or to project it further?

Desire for 'revenge' is only one emotional reaction victims have, and 'killing in return' is only one option on the 'revenge agenda'.

'an eye for an eye will have the whole world blind'
Gandhi.

to me the relevant question is how much real difference this will make to the lives of ordinary Iraqis.

Answers on a postage stamp.

[quote] By Pann on Wed 03-Jan-07 14:31:34
Is it better to stop that 'hurt' or to project it further?[/quote]

It says in the Quran that if you forgive, it is better for you. There were numerous occassions when the Prophet [saw] forgave transgessors.

There were very few instances when executions were allowed.

In this case, the trial wasn't fair,
o - the sentence was carried out on a day when it is forbidden in the Iraqi constitution,
o - the pictures of his execution were shown on TV,
o - this was definitely a US script, although eveidently the Maliki government carries the blame, too.
___

[quote] By SantaGotStuckUpTheGreensleeve on Wed 03-Jan-07 14:17:05
peacedove, you omitted to include that loathsome Rice creature in your hit-list.[/quote]

I believe the et al covers all accomplices.

peacedove. A bit confused my your post. Does it mean you have changed your mind, or does it mean something else?

Islam is a practical religion, and allows equal retribution. The emphasis is on not allowing excess. Some people who have been hurt need closure by that equal retribution. It recognises that the state or the concerned nexts of kin may not or cannot let off all murderers.

However, Forgiveness and Mercy are the qualities of God which we are encouraged to practice ourselves.

I would prefer that most mass murderers, war criminals, and serial killers be imprisoned and re-educated on their anti-human behaviour, but I wouldn't have a problem with their execution, if the state/authorities determined it would help deter future murderers.

Such executions should still respect the fact that the person being executed is a human.