is it really possible that Donald trump could be president?????

[Bishopsbuddy]

I have zero understanding of American politics and wondered could some one give me an idiots explanation pls. Could trump really win???

"Tell them, for example, that there were black people living in the UK in the Middle Ages; or that prisons are not 5 star hotels, and they'll claim you're being politically correct. They make no attempt to analyse whether political correctness is even relevant to whatever they're moaning about."

Exactly right and the people would be right because political correctness is all about spin for the purpose of politics and to silent the people's dissent. There is a reason that the political class reads scripted texts and why Blairites had to consult their pagers to see what the correct party line (the politically correct line) was before they spoke for the party, the bigwigs, the Establishment. There are facts, but there are also other facts which are ignored by the politically correct facts in orser to silence the people. Political correctness is spin in the service of the political class for the benefit of the Establishment and what they want the people to accept is correct. They don't want Trump's wall because they want open borders so they have to silence the people who do not think correct politically.

'They make no attempt to analyse whether political correctness is even relevant to whatever they're moaning about.'

It is nearly always relevant since it is spin to manipulate the people and the Establishment rules by media manipulation and spin as the few control the many by setting the parameters of what the many are allowed to think politically. The few deteremine what is politically correct or correct politically.

'It leads to the sort of lazy thinking that seriously believes in the Winterval myth'

It is not a myth. It is a symptom that the people see and understand. It is not very widespread, but the people instinctively understand the ruling class and know that if the metropolitan elite get theri way, then it will one day be widespread. That is why Trump gets tremendous cheers when he says "when I get in, we're going to be saying Merry Christmas, believe me folks". It is not at the top of the people's priorities but it is a symptom of what the ruling class have done to the people.

'It's a knee-jerk way of dismissing something you're uncomfortable with when you can't come up with a decent reason for your discomfort.'

No, it is an instictive understanding that the people have been spun and tricked and lied to. That is why Trump is so popular because he is the only politician to challenge it directly. Hillary was asked on an interview "have you ever lied to the American people?". She said "I've done by best not to". Greta asked Trump that on Fox last night. He said "No, i don't lie. If anything, I tell too much of teh truth, that's why I get in trouble". He meant that he is not politically correct and will say what he really believes and to hell with the Establishment and what they have said is politically correct.

'Dear me, that must mean that Obama is politically incorrect, because he's head of a government which maintains its illegality.'

No it doesn't. Under Obama there are sanctuary cities etc and the borders are open and there is no wall. It is not because Obama has decided that, it has been decided way above his head by the Establishment and the reason they want to stop Trump is because he refuses to go along with it and wants to build the wall. The government can't say "we are having completely open borders" because the people would vot them out, so they have to do it slowly. John McDonnell says "it is inevitable that we will have open borders by the end of this century". Of course it isn't but it is inevitable that the Establishment will want that.

'All Trump's political opponents are politically incorrect because they don't indicate any intention of legalising all immigration'

No they are not. They are all Establishment but very good clever actors. What they say is not what they do which is why the people have abandoned them and switched to Trump. Jeb said immigrants come to America as "an act of love" and Cruz and Rubio both run ads against each other saying that they lied about not wanting to legalise illegal immigrants and push for a path to full citizenship etc.

'Oh dear, where does that leave Trump?'

It leaves him as the frontrunner in the Republican pack, tearing his way across the USA, filling out stadia with the largest crowds of any politician and scaring the bejeezus out of the elite.

'Claig - I think it would be fair to say that the role of head of the Roman Catholic church is part of the establishment'

Not necessarily. There are different factions within the church and at different times, different factions were on top. The church usually stood for what it saw as the truth and refused to bow to the political class in doing what was politically correct. But this current Pope is a compelet reversal of many things they church used to stand for. A lot of figures in the church were and probably still are against the global warming elites because they know what it is all about. But the current Pope is with the Establishment. It is no accident that he held a mass on the Mexican border and had a swing at Trump. So now the Church is with the Establishment.

'It is a conservative role by definition because the church changes deliberately slowly holding onto traditions until it is clear that the latest thing is not just a passing fad.'

That is what it ised to be but not with this Pope which is why many American prominent catholic conservatives, like Pat Buchanan etc, wonder what is going on.

'I'd be willing to bet with you that the Pope will not speak directly about Trump again before the election'

I will take your bet. You have to undertand what Trump represents. He is the return of America, the return of teh nation state, the end of the global warming game and the end of globalism. The entire world's globalist class is in meltdown because if Trump runs America then it is the end of their entire game, planned and worked for for decades. It is the end of political correctness and that means that the people can no longer be manipulated by the media as they have been. The Pope will have to join in with the political class to stop Trump derailing the train of globalism.

The church doesn't join the establishment. It considers itself above and apart from it. More like "you can come to my party if I am generous enough to invite you to see me, but don't insult me by suggesting that I visit yours". (ish)

basically the church has survived every dictator, aggressor, force for evil etc etc for 2000 years, who would all make Trump look like a choir boy, so this is nothing, not even a small deal.

'The church doesn't join the establishment. It considers itself above and apart from it'

It used to be like that. This Pope has overturned what the church used to be. It is aligned with the political establishment and the political establishhment is desperate to stop Trump.

For the first time in 600 years, a Pope, Ratzinger, resigned his post and for the first time ever a Jesuit became Pope and he has in statement at least gone against many of the things the church used to believe.

'who would all make Trump look like a choir boy, so this is nothing, not even a small deal.'

The difference is that Trump is running for the presidency of the most important, powerful country on earth. If Trump wins, the entire world's globalist political class is in trouble because it will be the end of globalism and the end of their manipulation of the people's minds via political correctness.

That is why Trump 2016 is the biggest show on earth and why the Pope held a mass on the Mexcan border and took a swipe at Trump, going so far as implying he was "not Christian".

Here is a Pat Buchanan article. Pat a very prominent American Catholic and a very prominent conservative politician who once ran for President and who peopke say is really the forerunner of the Trump phenomenon, of nativism in opposition to globalism, of the American people (and all the people of the world) against the elites.

What on earth is going on with the formerly conservative institution that was the catholic church?

"Is the Pope Toying with Heresy?

Are Catholic truths immutable? Or can they change with the changing times?"

buchanan.org/blog/is-the-pope-toying-with-heresy-124205

Honestly, forget the lying, forget the need for drama, do you think the next holder of the US presidency will be the single most important, influential person the world has ever known for 2000 years? Because if you do, then there really is no reasoning with you.

'do you think the next holder of the US presidency will be the single most important, influential person the world has ever known for 2000 years'

It depends who it is. If it is one of the Establishment puppets then obviously not, as their strings are pulled. But if it is Trump, then it will be the most important change the world has seen for decades because the world is now at the point of no return. Either the globalists win and bring down the hammer, gut the United States and its deficit keeps growing as they drag the United States into endless wars where they never "win" as trump says, or the American people get their country back, America is again number one, and sovereign nation states across the world regain sovereignty and make deals by cooperation rather than manipulation.

Teh stakes could not be higher. The world's entire political class, the Daily Telegraph journalist, Oxbridge, Paris and Berlin will all be tweeting in panic tomorrow morning when Trump storms South Carolina.

It's the next chapter in the story that is Trump 2016!

'forget the need for drama'

Hoe can you forget it? The Establishment wish they could. They view the youtube broadcasts f Trump rallies, they view the showman Trump, they view the tens of thousands of Trumpites and see how he has energized the American people, how the viewing figures for debates reached 24 million when 4 years ago they were just 1 million.

The Establishment wish there was no drama, there was no Trump. They wish it was just business as usual, politics as usual, where the people were asleep, where boring and low energy Jeb Bush had a clear run. But it is not boring, the American people are turning out in record numbers to vote and they are voting Trump.

The Establishment are stumped by Trump. So they took it to the next level. They called on the Pope for help.

Pope vs Trump.

It doesn't get more drama than that.

It;s Trump 2016!

They call Trump a "counter puncher". They say he doesn't play by the Establishment's Queensbury rules. Trump has got them on the ropes and he won't let up.

He's in South Carolina tonight and he is taking lumps out of them and the referee will declare tomorrow morning that it was a knockout.

The judges will unanimously declare that Trump won every round.

The headlines will scream "Trump vs Establishment".
"Establishemnt KOed".

The Establishment will pick themselves up off the canvas, spin doctors, teenage whizzkids and trainers will tend to them and give them lucozade. They'll be back in the ring for Nevada, but the people know Trump will trounce them there once again.

Trump is steamrollering his way across the Southern States. The media talks of nothing else but

"Can Trump be stopped?"

Can he heck!
It's Trump 2016!

It still makes me chuckle that people trying to control human made climate change are "establishment".

Unless you mean those in favour of making it happen.

'It leads to the sort of lazy thinking that seriously believes in the Winterval myth'

It is not a myth.

Winterval myth

That is why Trump gets tremendous cheers when he says "when I get in, we're going to be saying Merry Christmas, believe me folks".

Which shows he is very cynically playing on the irrational fears of people who believe this nonsense and who in turn are whipped up by the right wing press. If they really applied their minds to it, they would remember that all over the US last Christmas people were happily wishing each other Merry Christmas without anyone being locked up for it, but Trump and his like want to brainwash them into thinking that a non-existent risk is real.

lazy thinking

If anyone is guilty of this it is a Trump supporters (as long as you're prepared to accept a broad definition of "thinking").

winterval

The bizarre thing about this myth is that Christmas is huge in the UK, far more so than in my pre-PC youth (and far more so than in many ostensibly more Christian nations in Europe) - whereas in the much more religious USA people commonly say "happy holidays" instead of "merry Christmas" - presumably in deference to the Jewish American population, rather than a response to recent immigration or Islam.

Re climate change, this is a good example, at least in Anglophone countries, of science and the business/political establishment being in opposite corners. (Curiously this is much less true outside the anglophone world and I'm not sure why that is.)

This war on Christmas myth has been totally fabricated by the right and has definitely been hyped in recent years as more Muslims have come to live in the US. I'm pretty old and I was taught as a child to say Happy Holidays because my parents had several Jewish friends. It didn't stop us celebrating Christmas and my parents were devout and observant Christians. Using terms that are more inclusive is certainly nothing new. But now some people are being very militant about saying Merry Christmas as though they are making some kind of brave political statement.

The way people think is not a "myth". thinking is real, sentiment is real and as we have seen it is driving the spectacular rise of Trump. The Establishment can ignore it all they like, but now their denial of the people's thinking is bringing the Establishment down.

'at least in Anglophone countries, of science and the business/political establishment being in opposite corners'

No they are all in it together. It is the people who are in the opposite corner.

'Curiously this is much less true outside the anglophone world and I'm not sure why that is.'

It is due to the tradition of freedom, free thought and liberalism in Anglophone countries, started in England mainly and spread to the United States, which is now the freest, most independent country and people on the planet. That is why the resistance to the globalists and their political correctness can only come from the independent freedom loving people of the United States. If Trump loses his battle with them, then the world loses its battle.

'This war on Christmas myth has been totally fabricated by the right'

I was watching Justice Scalia laying in rest yesterday on Fox and the Fox commenator was talking and mentioned "in Winter there is a Christmas tree, which they still call a Christmas tree" and she was being serious. I have never heard taht level of politically correct insanity before but expect to see it implemented here as well soon if the craziness continues.

'It didn't stop us celebrating Christmas and my parents were devout and observant Christians'

It is being driven from the public realm by the political class. People have had enough of their culture and traditions being treated as if they are someting to feel shame for.

Do you ever read your posts back to you?

I quite like the word 'Winterval.' It sounds like a place in Game of Thrones. I agree it is bollocks though.

I've never noticed Fox News troubling themselves to be politically correct.

Here is the Daily Telegraph's Tim Stanley again. He is not a fan of Trump, he is the type of conservative who prefers the Establishment candidates, but he just about gets it right here

"Donald Trump v Pope Francis? Trump wins

The kind of Americans backing Trump won't care that he's had an argument with a Pope they brand a "Social Justice Warrior"
...
Why do so many evangelicals and – yes – Catholics support a three-times married, foul-mouthed New Yorker who used to favour legalised abortion? Because they like the fact that he offers no compromise with liberalism. They gamble that because he’s beholden to no one, he’s more likely to fight their corner. Trump is their response to the "tyranny" of political correctness , a shield of righteous fury to hide behind. You know where you stand with him, even if you can't stand him. A little squabble with a Pope – especially one who speaks Spanish – won’t hurt The Donald

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/donald-trump/12163935/Donald-Trump-v-Pope-Francis-Trump-wins.html

But the right is trying to conflate successful legal challenges to nativity scenes on public property (we do have separation of church and state by law in the US) with notions that there will be laws prohibiting people from saying Merry Christmas if Democrats are elected. The real challenge in the US is protecting the rights of non-Christians and non-believers.

Here is Pat Buchanan again. What we are witnessing in an America is a popular revolt against the elites - not the politicians, because they aren't an elite, they are simply "bought and paid for" but against their banker and Wall Street funders. It comes from both sides, from Bernie on the left and Trump on the right and in the middle are all of the Establishment, being crushed on both sides.

"Trump’s success tells us that the American people really do not celebrate “globalization.” They think our negotiators got snookered out of the most magnificent industrial machine ever built, which once guaranteed our workers the highest standard of living on earth.

They don’t want open borders or mass immigration. They want people here illegally to be sent back, the borders secured, and a moratorium imposed on Muslim immigration until we fix the broken system.

As for the establishment, they are saying pretty much what The Donald is saying. To paraphrase Oliver Cromwell’s speech to the Rump Parliament: You have sat here too long for any good you have done here. In the name of God, go!"

www.theamericanconservative.com/buchanan/trump-unhinges-the-establishment/

The reason the world's politically corretc political class are watching what happens is because they know that if Trump wins, they wil be out next.

'notions that there will be laws prohibiting people from saying Merry Christmas if Democrats are elected'

No, it has got nothing to do with Democrats because the Republican elite are just as bad which is why the people have turned to Trump who insults the entire Republican elite, calls Senator Lindsey Graham a "nutjob" and calls George W Bush a liar. The Democrats are more politically correct than the Republicans because they are more controlled by Wall Street, but oth of them are the same.

There are no laws stopping people saying Merry Christmas to each other, but it is being increasingly removed from the public sphere.

As Trump said at a rally to the Trumpites

"Speaking at Liberty University on Monday, Trump said, “We could all be politically correct but it takes too much time. It takes too much time, it takes too much time. And a lot of it, it’s just wrong.”

“I’ll give you an example. You go into a department store now, right,” he said. “When was the last time you saw ‘Merry Christmas?’ You don’t see it any more. They want to be politically correct. If I’m president, you’re going to see ‘Merry Christmas’ in department stores, believe me, believe me. You’re going to see it.”

“You’re going to see a lot of things. You’re going to see beyond. You’re going to see a lot of things but that’s one example. You go shopping today, you hardly see it anymore. You hardly see anything. You see a wall that’s painted red. Oh, great, that’s wonderful. We’re going to be saying ‘Merry Christmas’ again.”

dailycaller.com/2016/01/18/trump-if-im-president-youre-going-to-see-merry-christmas-in-department-stores-video/

"The real challenge in the US is protecting the rights of non-Christians and non-believers."

But not at the expense of the majority.

The way people think is not a "myth".

Who said it was?

You really cannot seriously think Christmas is in any way being "driven from the public realm." Surely you noticed once or twice that last December our shops were full of decorations and Christmas cards, our radio stations were playing carols, the national broadcaster was broadcasting carols and other services, our churches were open and putting on advent, nativity services, Christingles, Festivals of Nine Lessons and Carols etc, and there was a national holiday on Christmas day.

Or are you going to continue putting your fingers in your ears and your hands over your eyes to avoid acknowledging anything inconvenient like facts?

'You really cannot seriously think Christmas is in any way being "driven from the public realm."'

Of course it is but the political class do it slowly because they know the people don't like it. In America it is at a more advanced stage because political correctness is a tool used by the political class and it has been implemented there first but it will spread here too.