Women's safety in Europe after Cologne

[DavidTCDaviesMP]

I have been invited onto Mumsnet to discuss the situation for women in Europe following the attacks in Cologne, and the challenge we face in Europe in trying to help millions of mainly young men, who are arriving in Europe from cultures which treat women very differently. I believe this is an issue which needs open discussion by political leaders yet is swept under the carpet. David Davies MP

Epic X post with Lumela

"It's a sensitive, nuanced, culture-centric gender-specific debate but it's not about race."

Yes and living in a diverse world we should be smart enough to handle this debate and draw up sensible effective policies.

"This is my error. I thought we were speaking with the Tory backbencher David Davis today, a much older man. But we got David Davies, MP for Monmouth."

That's a pretty big error to have made Britt.

So, instead of a fairly anodyne pleasant enough Tory who might actually have had something useful to say, we got a far right wing not only anti immigration, but anti gay and some would say, (and indeed do) anti women politician and YOU DIDN'T EVEN NOTICE you were all so busy wetting yourselves that you'd got a big politico to listen to your views.

That is really very very funny.

Noagenda, nope the rest of us, who've been on this thread for over a month, knew exactly who we were talking to.

We've been talking since the beginning of January about the support he's given us and the petition, in fact he suggested we start it in the first place.

He's pretty much the only UK MEP apart from Farage, who's had the courage to address the issue publicly.

Not sure how that's remotely funny.

Do RTFT (x8), love.

NoAgenda I assume that whoever organised Mr Davies' webchat chose the 'right' guy. It's just me ..... I assumed that she had approached David Davis.
Oh dear, you sound like a woman-hater.

Noagenda "busy wetting yourselves that you'd got a big politico to listen to your views."

How offensive and patronising.

I knew perfectly well who the web chat was with. I am old and smart enough to know the world is not black and white but will form alliances with people who support my most urgent interests. I am actually a foreigner living in the UK with not entirely white skin either! And, as mentioned previously will loose out personally if there is a Brexit as i don't hold a British passport. I am still grateful that DD lent his voice and engage with the topic here on MN as few other British politicians give a shiny * about any of this.

I quite wish there were some lovely Labour MPs who'd be willing to engage here and speak out against migrant violence.

so Noagenda you can take that chip on your shoulder and buzz.

Noagenda Instead of ridiculing people you should ask yourself the question, just why is it that DD was the only politician prepared to speak out on the matter? Tell me, are you not in the least concerned about higher incidence of rape in the wake of migration? IF you are, please can you try and invite another representative from another party to give us their views on the topic? thank you.

Yes, the silence from Labour is deafening. Absolutely bloody atrocious.

I'd ignore the patronising posts by noagenda.

Tell you what, NoAgenda, you organise a web chat, okay? You find a politician prepared to stick his or her head right up over the parapet on this contentious issue. You advertise it and get MNHQ to sticky it. Go on. I'll wait, because I'd love to take part. Seriously, I would.

David Davies was approached because he'd shown an interest in the issue. It might well feed into his out-of-the-EU ideology, but he has been polite and helpful and has actually had the guts to discuss this, unlike many, many MEPs and MPs who haven't even had the good grace to acknowledge emails, never mind reply to them. I think he is genuinely disturbed by events in Cologne and their implications.

Besides, I don't think he's a homophobe. He spoke to the EU Commission (I think it was - do excuse me if I don't go and hunt through a gazillion threads) about Cologne and amongst the things he said was that gay men have a right to go to the pub and have a quiet pint without being attacked for being gay men. Okey?

I knew exactly who I was talking to.

As I said to another poster some time back, the world is not a clear Manichean split between right and wrong, black and white. It is full of shades of grey. That's obviously more than some people can handle.

I also had no confusion as to who I was talking too not sure what the song and dance is about trying to make something of nothing.

Had a quick google and can only find this from 2010

During the interview Mr Davies said some communities had "imported backward, medieval and barbaric" views about women and added: "I think there is a wider question here - what is it about this young man’s upbringing, what about his community or his parental upbringing that led him to think that woman are second-class people whose rights can be trampled over like this?"

One of the heartening things to come out of these threads is the realisation by many that very left-wing does not equal compassionate, warm, fair-minded, caring politics. It is merely the opposite side of the coin to right-wingery i.e. agenda driven politics. Political views are not a straight right-left line. They are a circle with far left and far right meeting at the pole of obstinate dogma.

Personally, I am grateful for any politician who gets off his/her arse and acknowledges that this is a potential massive problem for women and that we won't budge up this time for every left or right wing agenda, whether it's let all migrants in or kick all migrants out.

And it is not racist in any way to assert "our country, our rules". If you come here you abide by our laws and our values or you can fuck off. We have enough pervy types of our own without importing any more.

Absoluely Grimble. Afterall, when we travel to the ME we are requested to cover our hair and shoulders and not show our legs by wearing an ordinary dress.

the 'left' are a bit like permissive parents who won't set their dc clear boundaries.

NoAgenda - What makes you think David Davies is far right?

He said this today -
'we should not allow the far right to own this issue. it should be owned by the democratic centre - Lab Cons LD and others. We "own" it by discussing it, as we are now and condemning extremists.'

What a truly nasty post Noagenda, we all knew who we were speaking to, did you when you were asking him a question. He came over as an honest man who wasn't afraid to admit if he didn't know the answer to a question and he certainly didn't seem like a woman hating homophobe to me. Why would he agree to answer so many questions on a mainly female forum if he hates us so much?

So take your silly, nasty comments and stop being so childish.

Ink someone said earlier any discussion of this nature at all is seen by some as far right...which is of course much of the problem!

'To Lumela: NO! There are no processes in place - unless you count handing out posters to asylum seekers in swimming pools with cartoon images showing that they should not put their hands into women's bikinis. What a joke'.

The posters thing never actually appened though David did it?

Yup. it appended alright.

If Emily says it didn't happen, it didn't happen.

Okay?

It didn't happen as in posters being introduced only for migrants. They've been around for two years.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/german-cartoon-swimming-pool-etiquette-guide-for-migrants-pre-dates-refugee-crisis-officials-say-a6848506.html

What didn't happen? The mass sexual attacks, robberies and rapes. Well, I suppose if your police don't act and then falsely report this is peaceful and the politicians and press minimise it or stay silent on the subject then it is a case of someone trying to say or pretend it didn't happen. Unfortunately, the victims will sometimes speak out (in the face of vitriolic backlash) and even manage to get reported on every so often. Of course, when they reveal it was men of ME/NA origin (and even police were saying it), there is a sense of a protective machinery excusing the attackers. Bl**dy women, making a fuss about being the targets of mass sexually assaults and rape.

Women will have to try to endeavour that crimes against women are not hushed up and deprived of oxygen like has been happening. When you see how the political sphere, police and the media tried to hush up those attacks in public with the police present, one can only speculate on the real level of assaults going on.

Is the Guardian still saying roughly 100, when the real number was more in the region of 1000 according to police (who can't hide it anymore). Why was the Guardian printing a false account? Now that people can't successfully hide the knowledge that the attacks happened , they are falsifying or minimising other bits of the story in sympathy with the assailants. I think I read an article on there that the attackers were 'frustrated'. Does that excuse go for all physically violent criminals, now? Paedophiles as well?

Germany has been accepting migrants for years, just not at the current rate. Perhaps the posters were produced for those earlier migrants.

Perhaps read the article Gourmet, they were made for antisocial behaviour from anyone.

From the Independent article: Rather than being produced in response to the spate of sex attacks on women on New Year’s Eve in Cologne, a Munich city spokeswoman told the DPA news agency the leaflets have been around since 2013, amid general concerns about anti-social behaviour across its 18 public pools

I genuinely wonder if there's any proof that these leaflets were in fact brought in around 2013, or whether the spokesman's comments are just another smokescreen? It's not an easy one to google, given the thicket of results about more recent events ...