Women's safety in Europe after Cologne

[DavidTCDaviesMP]

I have been invited onto Mumsnet to discuss the situation for women in Europe following the attacks in Cologne, and the challenge we face in Europe in trying to help millions of mainly young men, who are arriving in Europe from cultures which treat women very differently. I believe this is an issue which needs open discussion by political leaders yet is swept under the carpet. David Davies MP

That's true in a way grace, the example you give of doctors is true. But one of the strengths of the British economy is that we are at the cutting edge of technological innovation, the scientific and all kinds of engineering, academically as well as industrially. Currently we are able to attract people here who are the best in the world; these are people who couldn't be replaced by training someone up - they are quite simply world leaders.

We need to continue attracting those people, but yes we don't need more chicken shops.

This was one of the problems with the Highly Skilled Migrant Program under Labour (well, as well as forged documentation, fraud, etc, etc). People were coming in who were in theory highly skilled, but even the ones who hadn't forged their qualifications were actually totally unsuitable for the jobs they were theoretically qualified to do. From poor English skills to an inability to treat junior staff acceptably (or senior, if they were women). They often simply weren't able to get past interview or probation stage in the industry they were supposedly skilled for.

That's why the Tories bought in the time limit for skilled migrants, you have a certain period to get your wages up to a certain level, if you don't you're not considered highly skilled anymore when your visa is up for renewal and you have to leave. A very good move.

Ditto IMO a minimum salary for bringing in a spouse. I'm actually fairly happy with UK immigration policy at the moment, certainly for non-EU workers. And the policy of taking the most vulnerable from the camps in Syria - I support that too.

I think we have a relatively good balance aside from EU migrants.

The Masochists Who Defend Sadists: The Regressive Left in Theory and Practice by Cootes

quillette.com/2016/01/22/the-masochists-who-defend-sadists-the-regressive-left-in-theory-and-practice/

This is rather good, and here is an extract.

"I am speaking of the regressive left, a term coined by Maajid Nawaz. The regressive left refers to the nominally liberal writers and intellectuals who have stopped defending liberal principles, and now expend considerable energy excusing and defending the Islamist movement and its vicious assault on secular and Muslim societies.

"What defines the regressive left? It is the same assumption of Western culpability and confusion between friends and enemies that led to left-wing support for genocide denial in the 1990s and for the resistance in Iraq. In his excellent collaboration with Sam Harris, Islam and the Future of Tolerance, Nawaz shows that the regressive left “leap(s) whenever any (not merely their own) liberal democratic government commits a policy error, while generally ignoring almost every fascist, theocratic or Muslim-led dictatorial regime and group in the world.”

"In doing so, the regressive left has abandoned the people in the Muslim world it is supposed to be defending: the Muslim liberals, the Muslim feminists, the Muslim homosexuals, the ex-Muslims and atheists, the secular bloggers in Bangladesh, and the raped and tortured Yazidis, to name just a few."

I think they were more getting at that you appeared over invested in bringing certain posters down. I think I myself said you maybe needed to take a step back. For what it's worth I suffered mental health issues last year due to workplace bullying and I found you a bit bullying which given what happened to me made me take a step back from how I felt about you and what you posted so that I could remain calm. You are not the only person here who has suffered from mental health or personal issues.

emily describing that video as 'fact' is a bit much. But then your definition of 'fact' generally seems to be 'something on google that agrees with me'.

For a start, 'The National Institute for Social and Economic Research' is not a non-biased factual organisation. It exists to promote the Keynsian model of Economics which is generally a left wing theory: hence it's a left wing organisation which promotes left wing views: not an objective purveyor of facts.

Just from watching the first few minutes of the video I can see it's biased. For example 'Most EU immigrants come to work' is narrated, but underneath (not narrated) the number is given as 6/10, which isn't quite what 'most' implies. And they say 'Most immigrants from outside the EU come here to study'.....without the caveat 'because that's the easiest way to get in and work if you can't obtain a work visa'.

And 'immigrants create jobs'. Well perhaps some do, at good Universities, if they're studying there. Or if they're in extremely highly paid jobs. But the vast majority of migrants aren't. So what jobs do they create? Teachers, nurses, doctors, health workers, civil servants. You might note the jobs created by low paid migrants have something in common: they're all state sector employees. The migrants don't pay for these services, the state does through increased public borrowing.

But then public borrowing is something Kenysian economics encourages.

But these are not 'facts' emily, they are theories. Or if you might like 'opinions'.

Perhaps you might like to learn the difference between 'fact' and 'opinion' emily?

Please don't waste any more of Emily's time with facts - she's busy drawing up that list of Islamic safe-havens!

Lols emily that video is a work of comic genius. It's what it leaves out which is more important than what it says.

'Immigration allows employers to employ immigrants for low wage jobs - which sometimes means British workers can do more skilled jobs' but sometimes means their wages collapse and they can't afford to feed and house their families anymore.

'Some wages have fallen due to immigration.....but many wages have gone UP!' Rich people's wages have gone up. Poor people's have fallen. But fuck them, they're peasants, and I got a pay rise!

Bill Sykes - as a former highly-skilled technical engineer myself, part of my role was training "highly skilled/qualified" immigrants. As far as I was able to make out - their major and significant skill over mine was that they were paid less than twenty percent of my wage - as all the other benefits - eg housing/health insurance were fully tax-deductible.

Bill - haha cross posts! Us "expensive" Europeans were pushed out to make way for these "extraordinarily well-qualified" (read into that what you will...) migrants on little more than minimum wage...

Almost 2 million more people are in work now than 2010 - half of them are immigrants . The population also increased by around 2 million during the same period, mainly due to migration. So it's made little difference, but if we had lower migration, it would have

krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/03/27/notes-on-immigration/?_r=0
openborders.info/krugman-immigration-small-gain-for-natives/

Sporting, you show more concern for my posts than those sharing material from someone that defends the EDL and Britain First and denies parts of Nazi ideology. Instead, you continue to make excuses for personal remarks that people resort to when they have run out of counter arguments by framing my criticism of posts as 'bullying.'

I think the material posted was by January. January, what do you think of the anti feminist, far right defence and denial of Nazi ideology espoused by that man? Do you think sharing material like that will attract women to your petition?

What about the criticism of your postings emily? Just going to ignore that again?

january posted something without checking the source properly or making sure that it was legitimate, unbiased and reliable. So did you.

That makes you just about even hey ems, look for the plank in your own eye before looking for the mote in others, etc, etc, etc.

As I said I haven't had time to look at the material yet. I am still working. I will get to it when I have time, not when you stamp your feet and shout. Therefore I have not defended it, I am not going to comment one way or the other until I have.

I haven't had time to look at any of the you tube stuff you posted links to either at the moment.

Chasing my client for approval is my priority at the moment I'm afraid.

"Please dont expect a home for life"

This is what social housing tenants are being told and have been told for the last few years. Imagine the outcry if a politician said the same thing to the refugees.

I think its a bloody cruel attitude to show to either group but the difference is more ppl are cheering on the demise of social housing.

Social housing tenants can also expect a less than decent and sometimes downright discriminatory attitude from some of the HAs themselves and their sub contractors as well as some of the general public.

Now im not the biggest fan of Russell Brand but respect to him.....he is one that did get involved when he saw the social cleansing that was going on.

Some do care.

Hello Emily just got in and wanted to say sorry to you for my unkind comments to you last night. I really was genuinely concerned that your posts seemed to be becoming a little frenzied, particularly with one poster. I really don't agree with pretty much anything most of your posts and I don't suppose you agree with mine either. I do think that you that you have been rather bullying in some of your posts but, there again, my posts to you weren't very nice and 2 wrongs don't make a right and so I apologise

Bill, please direct me to posts where I link to people that defend the far right.

Not stamping or doing any of the sort, sporting, just find it odd that you are so troubled by my posts and not those of a far more dubious nature.

The material I shared detailed the three categories of immigrant (refugee, asylum seeker and economic migrant); I believe it is a useful distinction to continue to make as there seems a great resistance to acknowledge a difference between them.

He's right - the three categories have totally different needs and intentions.

I bear no responsibility for, nor am I interested in making a drama about, any other views he may have expressed on other videos he's made, in the same way that I quoted CS Lewis earlier on this thread but I'm not going to worry too much who else believes in backless wardrobes.

And that is exactly all that I have to say on the subject.

Bill, please direct me to posts where I link to people that defend the far right.

I never said that you did. I pointed out that both you and january had posted links to material without checking the reliability of your the source. That was perfectly clear.

Rather than complaining I have accused you of something I never did, why don't you answer a few of the questions I have asked you which you've ignored.

I'm still waiting for that list of countries...

He has some very suspect views and that includes his views on refugees. Sharing material like that isn't meaningless or as harmless as a fictional landscape. I hope you realise that.

'Drama' is not the word for pointing out your source is v sinister.

Ohfor, please stop. It took me some time to compile the posts with far right sentiments, it was hardly frenzied.

But most of them weren't far right emily. They were just things people said which may have been similar to something someone on the far right once said.

My little boy told me he was going for a poo last night. I dare say Nick Griffin and even Hitler said the same think at some point. That doesn't make my toddler a Nazi.

Indeed, Bill. By emily's reckoning the Queen espouses far right sentiments because she's the Patron of the CPRE. And so am I, apparently.

Again broken record, I am still working Emily, you may not be, but I am, I have not the time to look at YouTube stuff at the moment. I will comment when I do. I haven't said what I think at all - because I can't comment on stuff I haven't watched properly. I cannot agree with you just because you said it, that would be silly and just like a sheep indeed. Please have patience.

Bill, let's focus instead on what was actually said. The far right attempt to spread fear through spurious statements and by playing on fears surrounding education, race, space, entitlement and so on, as do some posters here. It's often about creating an imbalanced, panic ridden, one sided image of immigrants where the negatives are overemphasised.

'Emily, I felt really sad to read about your experiences, and it made me think how particularly hard it may be to read horrible comments, like the ones you have picked out. Yet you keep going, trying to stand up to and highlight prejudice when you see it, against other vulnerable and hurt people. I admire you'.

Thanks for this, Twisted Reach. I have been urged to leave te thread by some people or questioned as to wy I don't leave if I don't agree with the overall consensus. However, I think Mumsnet is a large platform and challenging some of the views here is important.

I am not troubled by your posts to be honest, you have your own demons I guess, I have mine. I have become very good at taking a step back from situations and people so it doesn't bother me greatly. I do recommend mindfulness though it's helped me with a lot of what I went through. I recommend zen thoughts blog, it's one of the best, I always find something in there that helps me when I'm stuck. Not meant as patronising just wonder if you'd find it interesting perhaps.