Women's safety in Europe after Cologne

[DavidTCDaviesMP]

I have been invited onto Mumsnet to discuss the situation for women in Europe following the attacks in Cologne, and the challenge we face in Europe in trying to help millions of mainly young men, who are arriving in Europe from cultures which treat women very differently. I believe this is an issue which needs open discussion by political leaders yet is swept under the carpet. David Davies MP

These might be useful There are previews in the following texts but the number of pages displayed in limited.
www.amazon.co.uk/Europe-A-History-Norman-Davies/dp/1847922902
and www.amazon.com/Western-Civilization-Ideas-Politics-Society/dp/0547147015 25 reviews 9th edition

you seem to think refugees can't have any opinions or preferences. The ones you mention don't sound particularly entitled. Why are you so shocked they had a car?

If you arrived in this country penniless, are not yet allowed to work, how does one buy a car and pay for its running?

Britt, you seem to think refugees can't have any opinions or preferences. The ones you mention don't sound particularly entitled.

No newcomer to any country should feel entitled to receive more from the State than those born in this country do.

'That could be because they are from a European culture, with the same mores and sensibilities. They know it is against the law to molest and rape women. That is the cultural difference'.
I find this remark rather tasteless, considering the refugees were escaping a similar situation to that which refugees escape from now. 'A European culture' doesn't mean much.

I find the molestation and rape of women in Cologne and elsewhere tasteless. That's what we have been discussing for two months have we not ..... how some ME-NA men do not know how to relate to women. You spoke about the Bosnian Muslims and I replied that they are European and subject to the laws and behaviour of Europe, so their behaviour was different.

LumelaMme Mon 15-Feb-16 17:52:16
The links to Immigration stats you gave that are sourced from the ONS give the following graphs of NET immigration - thanks.

Lumela he link you gave above Mon 15-Feb-16 17:52:16 is this: www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-statistics
I also found I found also from the Office of National Stats Long-term Migrants Latest Summaries' of www.ons.gov.uk/ons/taxonomy/index.html?nscl=Long-term+Migrants worth reading

Actually Britt it's estimated that there are half a million Syrians in Saudi ...

From Wikipedia:

"the number of Syrians in Saudi Arabia is estimated at around 500,000[2] people in August 2015 and consists mainly of temporary foreign workers.[3] "

Sporting, I interpreted for my parents at all doctor appts. The interpreters that are called in by hospitals, for example, are expensive and they have no special medical terminology knowledge.

the number of Syrians in Saudi Arabia is estimated at around 500,000 people

Yes, I know about these workers and previous immigrants, kesstrel. I am speaking of refugees. The Gulf States have not taken any in.

Britt, you seem to think refugees can't have any opinions or preferences. The ones you mention don't sound particularly entitled. Why are you so shocked they had a car?

If I were a genuine refugee fleeing a dangerous country I would be so relieved and grateful that taxpayers in my new country were willing to offer me safety and that I was being offered a flat that could have gone to one of the many native-born Britons that need one, I wouldn't have the nerve to be concerned about the size of the bedroom or try and wangle someone else's parking space. Sense of entitlement or what?

Are you actual real, Emily?

Oh no, not Emily again, why do you actively seek out and try to destroy these threads!

I got a letter back from my Minister, and tbh I thought it was good and had dealt with a lot of the issues I had raised, until I read another response up thread and realised they are very similar!

I am currently drafting a response to him, to thank him for the time, but to ask some further questions.

Thank you, grimble ..... I thought I may have entered a parallel universe where everything is the opposite.

A Syrian refugee I know works in a job that isn't their ideal job but I think they can't just transfer their qualifications, so that must be hard. I think a lot just get on with it though. They don't have any choice.

Yes, that's right - until they have learned English well enough and resat relevant exams. Something wrong with that? In the late 80s I knew an Iranian professor who had escaped the dogma disease that had taken over his colleagues. He told me that these were perfectly relaxed colleagues, well educated and flexible in their thinking, but somehow they got infected with the Khomeini virus and turned on the prof because he wasnt spouting fundamentalist dogma.

When I met him he was driving a minicab, sad about losing his educational life but happy to be safe. Who knows, perhaps he was successful in getting a teaching post in the UK.

Kuwaiti Politician Explains Why Rich Muslim States Won’t Accept Syrian Refugees

The Gulf nations argue that accepting large numbers of Syrian refugees is a serious threat to the safety of its citizens because terrorists could hide themselves among civilians.

A Kuwaiti politician explained why the Gulf States won’t accept Syrian refugees:

"They come from different cultures and won’t assimilate."

I am very glad DD has been asked on here to talk about this issue. My son was the only feminist on his table at school (he is the only white boy this year in his class at school (a fee paying school)) and his friends tend to be from homes where women appear at least to us to be second class. Many of them can hardly believe I pay the school fees, I am the primary earner, that women work. So he was very out numbered but holds his own (as he wants to be a lawyer like his mother). My joke is that I pay school fees and he ends up immersed in the political and moral values of rural Pakistan. He says he goes on line and amongst non school friends and people actually hold his views - he is very pro gay rights etc too.

So for me come from a Northumberland with 97% white people with reasonably Western values to this bit of London which is I think just about the most mixed borough in England (where to be fair most people get on, has lots of families - we are suburbia) is as if I have moved continents without moving at all. White flight goes on all around me in my borough and I stick it out and I am not at all racist or even anti immigration in the round BUT and it is a big but it is the 1m young men we have let into Germany etc (who in due course then have a right to come to the UK) who will be difficult to manage, like all those Chinese with not enough women to marry as girls are aborted. You end up with instability as young men want sex and women whatever their cultural background.

So what can we do to help the newer immigrants? If we let them in at all we can do the following:-

1. Don't tolerate even for a day any sexism. If they shout at us we shout back
2. Perhaps we need to carry hat pins as in the old saying so if we are with a man who is NSIT (not safe in taxis) we can give him a taste of our own medicine.
3. We can make sure we continue to wear the clothes we always did (I am often the least covered women in my local area)
4. We can give money and education to women from these communities rather than the men.
5. We should consider head covering in state schools. Our local primary has a lot of very very little girls with heads covered. That was never done here or abroad for very small girls and it's a bad trend. They don't have breasts. They are not sexy or sexual. They do not need their head covered. A local secondary I pass on the way back from the school run has many many girls with all kinds of different covering and head covering. I bet some of those girls would love to be able to say to their father - on your bike mate, I'm not allowed to cover my head at school so tough - you'll have to let my hair be seen but they can't because the school allows the head covering.

I find it really unjust that someone's qualifications and professional life become worthless just because they've fled a totalitarian regime where they can't practice anymore, or similar. Many big universities in the UK now have refugee scholarships, set up to give refugee academics and students a chance at continuing their work. The uni where I work has made several grants to academics from Syria and Gaza. I wouldn't want them to have to feel grateful for getting a job for which they're hugely overqualified and pays buttons, I'd rather the contributions they could make to research are recognised.

I'm not saying everyone should be given a job willy-nilly but I do think that certain industries and the academiccommunity are good at seeing the benefits to their own practice if they support bright, talented people who can't continue to practice at home, and make it as easy for them to continue as possible. A professor shouldn't have to get a new PhD in Britain because the one he already has is from Gaza, Iran, wherever. A PhD is a PhD.

1. We should consider head covering in state schools. Our local primary has a lot of very very little girls with heads covered. That was never done here or abroad for very small girls and it's a bad trend. They don't have breasts. They are not sexy or sexual. They do not need their head covered. A local secondary I pass on the way back from the school run has many many girls with all kinds of different covering and head covering.

deo How bizarre for the first time in years I happened to drive home via a large estate at school time and I was truley horrified, as you say young, some very young girls, all wearing veils? And all colours too, inlc many white?

Why? This was a town near me, I was shocked.

*A PhD is a PhD."

I think you will find this is not the case because parameters may be set differently in non-European countries for PhD and MPhil. In Medicine, overseas qualifications are not taken as read, and the doctors always had to take a skills test in the UK if they want to work in the NHS, because the veracity of a diploma could not be established to the satisfaction of the hospital board.

Overseas-trained doctors (outside of EU) continue to score lower than those who have got their medical degree within the EU.

I happened to drive home via a large estate at school time and I was truley horrified, as you say young, some very young girls, all wearing veils? And all colours too, inlc many white?

Mouse - this is one of the reasons migrants prefer to come to UK rather than France, so that they can have their girls in head coverings. They are quite open about it. They say "I can be Muslim in Great Britain."

CBS News 11.54 today: "German police have confirmed that of the 73 men involved in New Year's Eve sex assaults in Cologne, 30 are Morocco, 27
Algerian, 4 Iraqis, 3 German, 3 Syrian, 3 Tunisian, 1 Libyan, 1 Iran Ian, 1 Montenegro. ALL of these comprising of illegal entrants asylum seekers or asylum applicants. 12 of the 73 are already linked to serious sex crimes. Only 1 is in custody. He is a Moroccan asylum seeker." So, from these statistics, it would seem to indicate that the safety of women in Europe is far from assured. Incidently, there is nothing in the German news regarding these stats. There is however the prediction that Germany will accept a further 500,000 asylum seekers /refugees in 2016.

Perhaps they hadn't just arrived Britt? It doesn't sound like they felt entitled to more, rather that they had some opinions and preferences, as we all do.

'how some ME-NA men do not know how to relate to women. You spoke about the Bosnian Muslims and I replied that they are European and subject to the laws and behaviour of Europe, so their behaviour was different.'

I don't believe that refugees are more likely to assault women. Furter, there is a big difference between not being able to relate to women and actually attacking them. Do you think rapists rape because they can't relate to women?

Raping and assulting women is not a characteristic of men from certain ethnicities. Interesting that when white Brits commit their crimes of rape and sexual assault, their ethnicity or religious beliefs are not put forward as the prime reasons for committing the offence.

Deo my son came out with "The boys at school say they control the girls" the other day. Needless to say a chat was had about the fact that no human being controls another regardless of sex, religion, race or colour. Not sure what to make of that.

He also got upset as they don't believe he is being brought up without religion and keep saying he has to be Christian. I know it's important to them and they don't understand a world where it isn't a priority to everyone and are too young to reason it out. I have told him to say, please leave it at home but they keep on.

As regards headcoverings it seems to be only the Somali community doing it to very young girls here. Otherwise only high school age girls for most other communities.

Raping and assulting women is not a characteristic of men from certain ethnicities.

Absolute drivel. Whether you call it ethnicity, cultural misogyny or religion it boils down to the fact that men mostly from ME-NA attacked European women on NY Eve. That is why we are on the 9th thread about this issue. Ithink you have finally lost anything close to coherence with that statement. I think I've dropped into a parallel universe again ......

Grimble, being grateful doesn't mean not expressing your will or desires or wanting choices. How can they participate in the new society they have entered without being able to express their wishes?

being grateful doesn't mean not expressing your will or desires or wanting choices.

You get choices when you have paid into the system. No one participates in society until they are contributing to it and the services received. Anything else is unfair to the host population.