Women's safety in Europe after Cologne

[DavidTCDaviesMP]

I have been invited onto Mumsnet to discuss the situation for women in Europe following the attacks in Cologne, and the challenge we face in Europe in trying to help millions of mainly young men, who are arriving in Europe from cultures which treat women very differently. I believe this is an issue which needs open discussion by political leaders yet is swept under the carpet. David Davies MP

Sorry Inkanta, I do agree it ends up going off on tangent. It's just I guess that you feel you should keep it off the agenda that the subject is as black and white as she portrays.

We need to concentrate on the progress of the petition and having some positive outcomes for the whole discussion/process and monitoring any further developments that are relevant to this issue.

Events in Germany in January 2016.

www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7423/germany-migrant-crisis

It's quite a read.

Actually Britt it's estimated that there are half a million Syrians in Saudi ...

Oh really Misti. Pls provide your source.

Sporting, the group that brought them are outwardly 'Christian' but have links to far right Nazi and Islamophobic groups, so it is quite dodgy and weird. Bosnian Muslim refugees have been in the region for years but there wasn't the anti Muslim hysteria back then as far as I know.

It must be hard to be in a detention centre. My boyfriend was volunteering in Serbia where refugees were passing and some of the people he met are in Germany and sound really happy to be there and positive. They hope to study there. They are in a flat. The expectations must differ.

A Syrian refugee I know works in a job that isn't their ideal job but I think they can't just transfer their qualifications, so that must be hard. I think a lot just get on with it though. They don't have any choice.

Maybe some are disappointed. Sometimes things are harder than we imagined. It doesn't mean we are ungrateful or want to walk away. Sometimes people have to imagine something wonderful, they need to hope. If it isn't there, then maybe they can make it.

When have they done that moreshabby? When has there been a case when a refugee was represented as a good person in the media when they were not?

Lumela I will assist with putting a list of people together as well.

I know sport - I understand. Done the same myself. I expect most people reading will spot the black and white thinking straight away.

I realize that if I am getting weary or bored of these dialogues others' will too, and I am hoping people won't switch off because as you say there is more important work to be done.

The 'joke' issue was milked for all it's worth and glad that was finally ignored yesterday.

Also am I right in thinking that this thread is NOT about Syrian refuges.

That is something completely different.

I got really bored of the whole joke thing cos I missed it totally so had to sit on the sidelines not understanding what went on anyway.

I do want more than anything peace in Syria, that is the one thing that would be really wonderful. But with stupid Assad thinking he can retake it, I don't think it's going to happen.

Sorry got sidetracked.

I am willing to email a few people if there is a template because although I write copy it is very marketing led and I'm not great at more serious stuff!
I'll try and keep googling for pertinent articles on the subject as well.

If there is a picture of what is happening generally across Europe we need to see what is happening in terms of reactions by official sources etc.

Bosnian Muslim refugees have been in the region for years but there wasn't the anti Muslim hysteria back then as far as I know.

That could be because they are from a European culture, with the same mores and sensibilities. They know it is against the law to molest and rape women. That is the cultural difference.

Waterwitch that's a read alright. Terrible. And happening in Sweden too.

I am very happy to email. I've got a list of politicians and journalists I've contacted and their responses. Please PM me if you'd like to add to the list or share your own feedback.

We need to publicise the petition more. If anyone has constructive thoughts on how to do this, please speak up.

I am away for a few days now but can sporadically access wifi.

When my parents came to this country as stateless refugees they lived, first, in a single-gender hostel in a dormitory, then in a bedsit for years.

As regards immigration not having an impact on the size of classes or lack of enough schools, it is absolutely true. Everything is interrelated, because no nation can keep up with building programmes. It takes years to build a hospital, for example, and where are you going to put it anyway? Even if the UK had the money and the labour to build 2 hospitals in every county, it would still not be enough in 10 years time.

My friend has been a teacher for 24 years and she can testify about the increase in class size, the difficulty with language which slows other kids down, the difficulty that some parents create to have their girl children excused from PE from age 7, the intransigence of some boys about learning (there is one ethnicity that disrupts all the time apparently); in secondary school some boys do not participate in lesson because they will not take instruction from female teachers. It goes on and on.

www.radio.cz/en/section/panorama/christian-refugees-from-iraq-start-new-life-in-czech-republic

Without wanting to add more tedium to the thread Inkanta I'll leave you all to it. Good luck.

OhForGods ..... And just because "many immigrants " have less opportunity to an education, why should children in Europe and other developed countries have less too?

Why indeed. It's a smack in the face for parents who may have sacrificed a great deal in getting their kid into a particular State school. It's a smack in the face for those children who do want to learn but are derailed every single day by having to slow down enough for migrant children to catch up, or endure the mucking about of esp. migrant boys who will not listen to a female teacher.

One of the aims of mass migration is not to bring the standard of living and education in less developed countries up to our level, but to bring ours down to meet theirs coming up

Hope not Shabby - we like you here and don't need no flouncing - not now. Keep going and don't lose heart!

Entitlement/Expectatons.
A friend of friend who works in Housing tells us that there is a significant amount of complaining coming from so-called refugees. In fact, I saw a TV doc last year in which a large ME family were being offered a very nice large flat in London. But the mother kept on wheedling, saying that one of the 3 bedrooms was too small, kitchen could be larger. The housing officer who accompanied the family simply said You have to tell me now if you want the flat. If not, then I have to phone the next family on my list to come down and see the place.

The ME woman said that they would take the flat but as the family has a car (!) they do need a parking space for their sole use. The officer said that parking spaces are limited to 3 and they are all taken. The woman had the gall to try and negotiate with the housing officer to have one of the allocations recinded and given to her! Can you believe it?

It's nonsensical to direct the anger at people (immigrants) who have no control over the location and number of school places on offer.

It is not unreasonable though, esp. as children have to vie for places now. My friend's daughter listed 4 primary schools of her choice for her daughter. Not one of them was successful. She was expected to drive to & collect her child to a fifth school that had been selected, but migrant children living either in nearby streets or a little further away, were offered places in the schools that F. had selected. The reason given off the record was .... migrant mothers do not drive.

She wrote a letter of complaint and was offered a place at her first choice. Just think, she is 4th generation in that town (her children 5th) but that held no sway and was seen as totally irrelevant. HOW FAIR IS THAT?

I guess there are issues with some feeling entitled and some authorities unfairly prioritising need. I don't think there is any of that at our school, but it all has an impact. In fact I only got 3-4 minutes with the teacher one parents evening because the mother before me required translation by her eldest and so things took longer. I accepted it, I'm sure the mum will improve in time with her English but it did mean I didnt get to speak about issues I had with my sons progress and what help the teacher thought I could give him. I ended up having to have a chat at the end of school another day. I haven't heard of parents withdrawing girl children from PE but we have swimming in the summer term and there may be some parents who will do so then but most seem fairly keen on it.

To return to the issue at hand, the current crisis will have an impact worldwide, the ME will not look the same as before and many people will end up spread across the world detached from all they knew. It will have an impact on them and those that come to know them. There will be grief for what was and what can never be again. It is up to us to make sure that fairness to all prevails and that doesn't include some sections of society being made to pay more heavily for this than others. Unfotunately it will not be easy and will likely be messy.

Britt I'd like a larger kitchen and my son's room is tiny. Unfortunately I have to pay to make that happen and we are going to ultimately make compromises to make any sort of move happen. I accept not everything will be perfect.

I guess not everyone is like woman in programme though (at least I hope not).

Interpretation/Translation provision.
There was a time when a migrant who did not speak English at all or well, would be accompanied by a relative who did speak English well enough, or someone from the church/mosque/temple, or indeed from a community support group. Afterall, there are very well established community groups that predate recent migration. When did it become OK to use public purse money for interpreting/translating?

When I had to attend hospital as a child, and my mother's English was very poor, she took along a woman from our church who had been in England much longer, to act as interpreter.

There is no reason why migrants' teenage children cannot accompany them on appointments.

This charity contains useful links for the Petition gendertrust.org.uk/directory/support-organisations also it has a list of supporting organisations. translondon.org.uk/ TransLondon is a discussion/support group for all members of the ‘trans’ community, whatever their gender identity (or identities) and whatever stage in their ‘transition’ they have reached (if at all). However, all members must themselves be trans-identified or ‘questioning’.

Apparently it's to do with patient confidentiality and that the child/family member/friend may still struggle with technical/medical words (my DH still does sometimes). Sometimes husbands go in with ladies but also there are lone migrant men who struggle also. It is complex, school parents evenings though most parents who struggle do take older kids although for some languages there are members of school staff who can translate, just not all.

'That could be because they are from a European culture, with the same mores and sensibilities. They know it is against the law to molest and rape women. That is the cultural difference'.

I find this remark rather tasteless, considering the refugees were escaping a similar situation to that which refugees escape from now. 'A European culture' doesn't mean much. Europe is made of vastly different people Brittand vastly different cultures. One of the forces beind people becoming refugees at the time was because their culture was considered inferior to others.

Britt, you seem to think refugees can't have any opinions or preferences. The ones you mention don't sound particularly entitled. Why are you so shocked they had a car?

'there is one ethnicity that disrupts all the time apparently' I taught in the UK. I never noticed this. I did notice the kids tended to disrupt when my lessons were boring. I also worked in classes with Polish kids newly arrived. They settled in fine and spoke English very quickly. I find your remark about disruptive migrant boys just sad sad sad and so reflective of the insidious attitudes so many youngsters have to contend with.

People in the UK don't have less because of immigrants. Isn't suggesting that people have less because of immigrants rather like the way the Jews were blamed for social problems and a smack in the face for those that fought against the Nazis, for tolerance and acceptance?

The danger isn't the migrants. The danger is the scapegoating of vulnerable and desperate people that some people lap up. While public services are sold by a callous elite, people do their work for them, dehumanising desperate people.

'As regards immigration not having an impact on the size of classes or lack of enough schools, it is absolutely true. Everything is interrelated, because no nation can keep up with building programmes. It takes years to build a hospital, for example, and where are you going to put it anyway? Even if the UK had the money and the labour to build 2 hospitals in every county, it would still not be enough in 10 years time'.

Who do you think builds and works in these hospitals?

This can be useful www.gov.uk/home-education. and www.gov.uk/home-schooling-information-council The Government says says As a parent, you must make sure your child receives a full-time education from the age of 5 but you don’t have to follow the national curriculum.

This contains information that might be useful on Home Education
www.educationotherwise.net/

mumsnet has also a Talk Board on Home Education with important experiences and discussions www.mumsnet.com/Talk/home_ed