Women's safety in Europe after Cologne

[DavidTCDaviesMP]

I have been invited onto Mumsnet to discuss the situation for women in Europe following the attacks in Cologne, and the challenge we face in Europe in trying to help millions of mainly young men, who are arriving in Europe from cultures which treat women very differently. I believe this is an issue which needs open discussion by political leaders yet is swept under the carpet. David Davies MP

Once again, for those of you who like facts, here are the immigration statistics:
from the BBC website and some longer-term trends.

Immigration to the UK is at an historic high.

Most immigrants to the UK end up in England, which is one of the most crowded countries (as opposed to city-states or small island countries) in the world: it is more crowded than the Netherlands.

(Caveat: I have no problem with the individual immigrants who I know. None: they are nice people, come to our house, DD babysits their DC. However, I like open space and woodland and wildlife, and I also sometimes wonder idly about the UK's food security, since England is the UK's breadbasket, but we keep building on it: I don't think it's sustainable.)

'(Caveat: I have no problem with the individual immigrants who I know. None: they are nice people, come to our house, DD babysits their DC. However, I like open space and woodland and wildlife, and I also sometimes wonder idly about the UK's food security, since England is the UK's breadbasket, but we keep building on it: I don't think it's sustainable.)'

I think this says a lot about your 'concerns' about immigration and how much they really are rooted in fears about women's safety.

The rate of immigration (from anywhere) to England specifically is not sustainable. Green belt land is not unfortunately fully protected either. There are some brown sites that could be built on, but no one in their right minds wants a vast, unchanging landscape of houses and apartment blocks. I want to retain the gaps and the waste ground because on that wasteland grow a multitude of flora and fauna, and is home to small wild creatures. They also need to live and flourish otherwise we will denude ourselves of everything that is not homo sapien.

England is being used like a bottomless pit, every centimetre of space to be used up. In the next street to me is an office block which is currently being converted to flats for sale. The pressure on the roads will be tremendous, as there are only two side streets off a very busy road that the owners will have to use when driving.

Houses at the beginning of my street (both sides) were demolished to make way for two hotels. The kindergarten is going to be demolished to make way for housing.

Two failed shops are being converted to flats - more strain on services. Our council offices are going to be demolished and housing built on that site. And that's just in my small neck of the woods. If England really is more densely populated than the Nederlands then we really are in trouble.

Knowing the minds of others better than they do themselves. It's a talent.

I live in an area where almost everyone is a migrant, in fact on my street there are only 3 people who are what you'd call white British. Immigration is changing this area irrevocably, it is not the same and never will be. Mostly it's fine but it's useless to pretend there are no issues, there are. Many migrants are not entitled but some cause issues without meaning to. It takes time for them to settle and get used to a new way of life. In the meantime the rest of us deal with the issues raised. A midwife appointment that took 2.5 hours waiting because the 2 ladies ahead needed translators and they had to be called (not great when you have to return to work), fly tipping by neighbours that don't understand that it's not ok to just leave stuff on the street and many other things.

Most people are sympathetic towards migrants but pretending it's without impact is just plain lying to yourself. I live it.

This is what the thread is about. Fly tipping we can deal with. Being afraid to go out no.

Knowing the minds of others better than they do themselves. It's a talent.
It's amazing, isn't it, Sonya? I wish I had it. It would be so useful in my daily life.

I live in a small town of approximately 10,000 people. We have 3 small infant schoolso, 1 of which has been earmarked for demolition due to structural faults. There are no plans to either extend either of the 2 remaining schools, nor to build another one. This means that the average school population of 400 pupils will now be condensed into the 2 remaining schools. We have recently been informed that our local council has agreed to accept 40 refugees and their families. It is already known that this will increase the school population by 91 children. Even without those extra children, our 2 remaining schools will be full to the point of being unsafe. In addition, the children will, in all probability, require additional help adding extra difficulties to a class size of between 36 - 40 children per teacher. I am deeply worried that our children's education is being compromised by both this governments cuts to education and a huge surge in migration. How can we possibly keep on taking more and more people in, no matter how desperate they are, when our own children are having their basic needs compromised?

The school space shortage is more due to the wealthy not paying their taxes than immigrants.

Most people are sympathetic towards migrants but pretending it's without impact is just plain lying to yourself. I live it

I have lived it too sport to the point of near breakdown, and marriage breakdown, we couldn't cope with the stresses to our lives and yes I lived in fear. Very large, physical men constantly fighting, with knives and glass, right next door..... I could give a proper break down of what we have had to endure but I couldn't bear the likes of Emily making some irrelevant comment to me and mimising or excusing our horrific ordeal, when as I said - I have been near a break down with it all, and so on.

I am very sympathetic towards refugees who are bombed out and fleeing for their lives. I totally understand economic migrants moving here to better their lives back home, but its our Governments job to protect us - the citizens and do everything with our safety and well being in mind. Duty of care.

I was failed.

Oh do give over lightbub please. I know perfectly well that cuts to education isn't because of immigration and I don't think I've even alluded to that in my post. But to chuck in that our local school problem is being caused by wealthy people not paying their taxes is really dumb. Please re read my post and try again. or don't .

Stands to reason not everyone is a nasty bigot Sonya.

Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain have resettled 'zero' refugees. None of the Gulf countries signed the 1951 Refugee Convention but it doesnt mean they cannot take refugees in if they wanted to.

Care to expand? I don't quite get your point.

It's perfectly reasonable for people to be concerned and angry about a shortage of school places, but it's nonsensical to direct the anger at people (immigrants) who have no control over the location and number of school places on offer. I'm not even sure that it's down to lack of money specifically, it's more to do with government policy restricting local authorities from building new schools in places that need them.

There's no evidence that immigrants have a negative impact on school performance, though - London has the UK's most diverse schools and yet London schools significantly outperform schools elsewhere in the UK.

Actually Britt it's estimated that there are half a million Syrians in Saudi ...

People like me that might argue that there were factors contributing to your experience, other than immigration. Yes, I can imagine that wouldn't suit you mouse. Better to stick to the UKIP manifesto.

This part of the thread reminds me of Noel Edmond's recent 'Britain is full tweet.' If anyone sounds entitled, you lot do.

There you go again Emily , always resorting to name calling. Sometimes you impress me with your arguments about immigration I don't necessarily agree with them but nevertheless . But then you just descend into calling posters "nasty bigots". But you have form for that, don't you? I would like to ask you again what your solution to immigration would be but I've tried that many times in the past and you never come up with anything concrete and I don't suppose you will now. Yet again, the overwhelming swell of opinion on this thread is that mass immigration to the UK is unwanted. Regrettably, the behaviour of some please note that I said some immigrants in other parts of Europe has dismayed people into not wanting the same situation to happen in the UK. This may not be what you want to believe or hear, but you cannot change that. It's something you're going to have to accept.

But our local schools are already excessively full mistigri and, whilst I'm not "blaming" imigration for that (as you put it) it certainly is exacerbating an already difficult situation. I care not a jot for your assurances that multiculturalism is great in London schools. I have sufficient knowledge to know that any class size of more than 35 children to 1 teacher, will have a negative impact on ALL of the children and the poor teachers .

Ok Emily , I'll give it another go.... How would you resolve the issue of immigrants coming into a European country, and understanding the social and legal responsibility and requirements, so that the indigenous population have no fears or worries about their safety? There is clearly, according to the majority of posters on this thread, who do have serious concerns but, so far you have minimised those as being bigoted. Here's your chance Emily , tell us.

It looks as if you can like the immigrants you know and STILL be a 'nasty bigot'. God, I'm baffled, I really am.
And concerns about green space and food supplies = 'entitled'. Who knew?

Does looking at a photo of school supplies being delivered to an IDP camp in Iraq by an organisation I support and feeling sad it's necessary but glad it's being done because it will make people's lives better make me 'entitled' or a 'bigot'? I'm really confused.

So, people, we are being diverted again by guess who.

I asked earlier:
Shall we try and put together a list of MPs/journos worth emailing/contacting? We could then undertake to contact a certain number each, asking for publicity for the petition, and asking the politicos if they would consider some sort of cross-party working group. Any takers for this idea?
Only jan replied. It is just her'n'me, or is anyone else interested?

I'm in ...if we have a template email etc...
Who set up the original spreadsheet - can we get in touch with them?
Can't remember which thread it was on ...
I agree we have to publicise the petition more...maybe get someone to mention it on tv or a journalist to mention it in an article...
I think a facebook thing as well ...a thing we can just send out...
I'm rubbish at being concise ...

YES lumela I'm interested. Will you pm me the details and what to do please?

Thanks, unlucky.

I'm sure I can knock out a template for refining by other minds (it's half term, I'll get no work done this week). I should have cut and pasted the original list when it was posted but I can probably find it (if anyone can remember which thread it was on, please tell me!)

x-post.
Okay, Ohfor. Thanks.
I think the plan is to put a list together of people worth contacting, post it on the thread with a template or two, and go from there. Not much of a plan, but better than nothing.

Lumela, the nasty bigot comment was in response to a comment about Swedes. I was stating that not all Swedes will be nasty bigots that label immigrants as ungrateful and entitled.

And to me, whining about school places does sound rather entitled when compared to the situation many immigrants are coming from.