Sex Attacks in Cologne and other European Cities Part VII

[januarybrown1998]

part 6

part 5

part 4

part 3

part 2

part 1

The events of NYE were shocking enough; the subsequent minimising and under-reporting were an affront to women's rights to equality across Europe.

It's a testament to the tenacity and commitment of this community that we are at thread VII; do join the discussion and feel free to share the links and letters to anyone you think may wish to be part of this important debate.

We are currently awaiting the approval of a petition to parliament.

Shortly we will post links for those who want to take a proactive part in safeguarding the rights of all UK women to live in freedom from the fear of mass sexual assault as we sadly saw in NYE and reports of which are finally seeing daylight across Europe.

Emily we're discussing the events in Cologne and their potential impact across Europe.

Cologne is in Germany.

Don't be mean, people - clearly none of the stuff that is actually happening in Germany is actually happening. I know it's not because I covered my eyes, blocked up my ears, put a condom over my head, and am sitting in a sensory deprivation tank as we speak.

Thanks, folks.
You reassure me that I am not going mad.

Emily i feel like you just argue with extremes rather than with the middle ground which is what most of represent.

Of course Help was completely wrong to identify with Breivik but you also have accused someone of being a Neonazi and other people of being racist which is also very offensive.

So you shouldn't be throwing stones. Why don't you just calm down and engage with the views?

No one said it was happening in the UK Emily? They said they don't want groups in the UK to start calling for alcohol bans and for women to cover up like they have in Germany. It's not that hard to understand

Vertigo I agree with your post upthread that I do not agree with every statement made on this thread either but, like you, do not feel the need to keep picking on every disagreement

emily Has it ever occurred to you that your persistent unpleasantness could be counter-productive? I would be reluctant to enter any disagreement on the side of somebody who has called other posters racists and Nazis. Most of us are adult enough to realise that a discussion involves a range of views and an exchange of information and opinions which is how we all learn, educate ourselves and change/formulate views. The aim is not to convert everybody to one single point of view and that is why most of us don't feel the need to challenge everything we disagree with and keep harping on, persistently trying to denigrate others

We have not been told to cover up (yet) - but a mumsnetter was ATTACKED IN LONDON on nye (?) on her way to a concert. It's right there on page 1 of this first thread. She said she was glad she was wearing very thick tights. I shouldn't need to spell out what I think she meant.

Just a thought, if question time is being filmed near anyone on here, you could apply to be in the audience. When you apply, you get the chance to submit 2 topics you would like to discuss. It might be another way to keep the topic current.

Dates and locations for QT are on the website.

Have we seen this on these threads yet?

(Apologies if I'm repeating something)

Wow - just caught up with today's posts. Looks like Emily has run rings round you all!

How's the petition going?

'My only motive in posting on these threads is to counter the prejudice and senseless hate that I see at a time when it seems to burn like wildfire.'

Emily said this early today - and this is the kind of accusation that does wind people up time and time again, and to be honest I don't know how she gets away with it - but she does.

I think 99% of us on this thread would open our hearts and give PRAGMATIC help to women/children/families in need.

Grace, YES and its been said before ^^. Not one thing a poster has said has made me think they do not want to help the genuine refugees in need.

Which is why Emilys posts are so wide of the mark, infuriating and pointless.

she is inciting hatred where there is none.

Vertigo I agree with your post upthread that I do not agree with every statement made on this thread either but, like you, do not feel the need to keep picking on every disagreement

hear hear THIS IS MUMSNET - who does agree with every post, but this is more than a differing of opinion.

This is someone who refuses to engage and slings round abusive comments on a very sensitive subject.

As so much time is given to answering a certain poster rather than discussing the important issues, this thread is becoming more and more tedious to read.

Radio 4 was excellent this morning as mentioned upthread. Darwinian natural selection indeed.

Daily mail seems keen to keep this current - they have their own agenda of course but at least they don't brush it under the carpet. they are reporting 821 NYE assaults, mostly cologne but also in nearly every other state too.

Absolutely agree with you all, it is very tiresome to keep dealing with this level of insult and selective hearing. I keep trying not to engage

She will eventually drive everyone away, which I suspect is the aim

As long as MN tolerate statements like 'My only motive in posting on these threads is to counter the prejudice and senseless hate that I see at a time when it seems to burn like wildfire.' and referring to other posters as racists, bigots and Nazis as being part of robust debate and just swimming against the tide there is very little chance of a sensible discussion

I agree with Anna - on with the topic. Can anyone summarise what was said on r 4 today? Which prog was it?

Also to say these threads have been quite remarkable. The links posted and the (by and large) thoughtful and intelligent discussions had have effected a revolution in my political thinking. I suspect I'm not alone. For this reason, above all else, let's focus on the issues, and not rise to provocation.

It was start of the week with Andrew Marr. There were 3 guests discussing migration. Two had written books. One was an MEP.

Indeed Words we are getting side tracked and need to get back to the reason for this thread.

As long as MN tolerate statements like 'My only motive in posting on these threads is to counter the prejudice and senseless hate that I see at a time when it seems to burn like wildfire.' and referring to other posters as racists, bigots and Nazis as being part of robust debate and just swimming against the tide there is very little chance of a sensible discussion

How many complaints does a poster need to have?

Yes words, my own learning on this subject has been expanded, thank you to the people who post links.

I read most of them, and digest them.

Thats what everyone else bar one does on this thread after all.

Calmyo, robust debate?

I would call a lot of it supposition, claims not held up by facts, such as the claim that most of the people reaching Europe are economic migrants, the claim that the ones that reach Europe are 'me me me, the claim that Aylan's death was his father's fault, the claim that the real heroes are those that stay behind in Syria.

There is a lot of cruelty and hate in many of the theories hanging about on this thread, like this one from sporting,

'So learning to swim at least for women and girls is considered a great evil, no wonder it's a lot of the women and young children that die on the crossing I expect most of them cannot swim'.

Babies and toddlers often can't swim and even if you can swim, I think it is not difficult to die in the freezing sea. This post seems to pin the blame on these poor people that drown by inferring their culture was the cause. Robust debate?

Willbeat, said, 'I also know that do gooder meddling type'. Robust debate? What is the point of using this terminology for people that help?

Then there are the generalisations, 'Why would you do horrible things to people who are trying to help you?' Most of them clearly don't. Inferring many do and will is not robust debate.

Page 30 of this thread refers to Radio 4 segment.

MEP was Daniel Hannan, Conservative.

This is the BBC's summary of the Start The Week programme:

"On Start the Week Andrew Marr explores the question of citizenship. While immigration issues dominate political debate, little attention is paid to the big increase in the number of people becoming British. The academic Thom Brooks and the Eurosceptic MEP Daniel Hannan look at the relationship between the two and the challenges for modern UK citizenship. Ben Rawlence spent four years reporting the stories of those who are stateless, living in the largest refugee camp in the world, while Frances Stonor Saunders explores the increasing complexity of today's border regimes and the obsession with the verified self."

You can listen to it online here.

Here is a link to Daniel Hannan's blog. I think an earlier poster linked to it as well, but this bit bears repeating:

"When people say, “the migrants have been through hell, and we should welcome them,” what they’re actually saying, if you think about it, is that we should contract out our immigration policy to people smugglers. They’re saying that, instead of taking those who have queued patiently, or those in the camps who have been classified by the UN as refugees, we should allow a lucky few to jump the queue by breaking the law."

Is it so impossible to identify and prosecute the people smugglers? They are callously exploiting both the refugees and the economic migrants.

Back in March 2014, Australia announced that it was "100 days since last successful people smuggling operation". I don't know if people smuggling to Australia has resumed since, or if their solution was effective.